GGG hates standard.

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Nenjin wrote:

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fsg wrote:

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Nenjin wrote:

Their "main target audience" was Diablo players

you know that the ladder was a pretty central thing in d2, right? there were even ladder only uniques and runewords and content, just like in poe. and you cant possibly claim that non-ladder wasnt broken with heaps of duped, bugged and hacked items

Wasn't for me. I treated it like a SP game and enjoyed it thoroughly like that. I remember D1 was full of duped, broken crap and that's why I quite playing it and D2 online, and just focused on the game as is in the SP experience. That's how I've always treated PoE as well, from Day 1. I was playing SSF by choice from pretty much Day 1.

this is true, that d2 also worked as a purely single player experience, and i do personally still play single player d2 (hardcore /p8, a mighty challenge) from time to time. but the single player + online arpg seems to be a thing of the past, and when GGG said their target audience was d2 players, it always seemed clear to me that they meant the vast number of players who played in exclusively online, and participated in the ladders. the fact that d3 had nothing resembling ladders and literally no incentive to create new characters once you had one of each class was a great disappointment (among all the other disappointments that game brought) which was a large contributing factor to me giving that game up very early.

the thing that kept me playing d2 online for the better part of a decade was theory crafting new builds, leveling them, and seeing my ideas come to life. i participated in the start of many ladder seasons, and was strongly motivated by the fresh clean start. i know that many people feel exactly the same, as this was the drive of the typical d2 online player in its hey day. this is the audience that GGG caters to.

but i understand that there is also this other type of d2 player, the player who enjoyed the game as a single player experience, which i absolutely see the charm in. and i am sorry to hear that this was what you expected when GGG marketed the game as the spiritual successor to d2, which must have been a disappointment. but it is hard to envision how GGG is going to be able to make the game you want, while at the same time making the game they, i, and all the other d2 ladderclimbers want. in a game focused on league play where everyone starts from scratch GGG has the freedom to try wild things, which is one of the main selling points for me, without much consequence, which is not a possibility in a permanent realm oriented game. for example the addition of the new acts and the removal of cruel and merciless is inevitably going to make a mess in a perma league, but it is with zero consequence for a temp league.

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Nenjin wrote:

And nothing GGG presented in beta told me this shouldn't be the case, that I was wasting my time playing it because I wasn't the "core audience." (Which I think is a horseshit argument anyways. PoE would take a corpse that could type in the early days, they wanted everyone. So that seems like disingenuous, slippery argument to make, like a bait and switch is acceptable.)

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but in all seriousness, it is quite obvious that this game is built around leagues. the whole game with the endless build possibilities and the fact that there are no free respecs available just breathes "reroll".

Other than the free respec that comes with virtually every major update, you mean? The only thing that PoE's skill tree incentivized me to do was know what I was doing, not re-roll a million times. I like to focus on one character for the most part, optimize the build according to what I've got and what I need to try to beat. Getting a unique drop that you'll actually use, or a quality rare, is a godsend in high level SSF and I enjoy that I actually ENJOY getting loot because of how I choose to play. I find that way more enticing than racing, trying to beat some arbitrary clock that says I need to put as much time as possible into PoE right fucking now whether I feel like it or not. Standard and SSF is my speed, and doesn't have any of the noise that goes along with the rest of the game, whether that's the shit show of trading or balance or leagues, ninjas, buying progression or any of that.

you know as well as i do that the free respects that come with major patches is an unintended side effect of reworking the skill tree. it is obvious that GGG does not want you to easily respec your character, but rather make a new one if you want to try something new. whether or not the vast skill tree and endless combinations of skillgems motivate you to reroll is not the point, when it is clear to everyone that the intent of the vast number of possible builds in combination with lacking respecs is to motivate people to make many characters (the 20 character slots also points towards this).

you are free to play the game as you want, but you must understand that the way you prefer to play the game is not the way of GGGs envisioned ideal player. GGG did however listen to you, and added the SSF mode to the game. you are practically able to enjoy the game close to how you ideally would want it, except for the unavoidable mess that major content updates such as FoO brings (do you have any other suggestion for how act 5-6 + the removal of cruel and merci could have been added, such as to not make a mess in the perma league?)

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Nenjin wrote:

But FoO may be the first time as a standard player I've actively felt the update plan like a straight middle finger to the league I choose to play in. Nerfing Zana's was bad and incomprehensible. But to just decide that played Standard characters just don't even get to see the story at all? That is truly some lazy shit right there. Shows a real commitment to the product when it's like "Meeeehhhh we don't really care if 1/3 to 1/5th of our playerbase has to completely restart, pointlessly, in their league to see it." Real craftsmenship at work there.

To all people ITT asking for the complete abolishment of temp leagues
you are crying to deaf ears. this is something that will never ever happen. it is more likely that standard will be removed before temp leagues. temp leagues is the way GGG envisioned their game to be played.

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PayneK wrote:

-gets to call standard trash to feel superior

Standard is trash regardless of people's feelings.

It was designed that way. It would actively cost GGG time and effort to delete characters and stashes from Standard and it would lose players so they don't do it. Doesn't mean they plan for it or care for it in any way.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

I don't even pick up ES items anymore in Standard because they'll never match whats already available.

sounds really fun, not even being theoretically possible to find valuable items, in a game which is literally about killing mobs and finding items. this is why people want to play fresh leagues instead.

While I can certainly understand your point of view (wanting persistent progression across different leagues), many players find that starting fresh with new mechanics and build-enabling, league-specific uniques to be rewarding and enjoyable. In addition, it gives the developers a chance to test new game mechanics that they might want to add to the core game going forward. The new acts have cut down on the monotony of leveling a new character, which should help players that find it hard to get invested in new leagues. New leagues that are released alongside major releases are (probably) designed to be light in content/mechanics to better acclimate new/returning players and make it easier to balance new core content that was added to the standard game.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

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fsg wrote:

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SaiyanZ wrote:

I don't even pick up ES items anymore in Standard because they'll never match whats already available.

sounds really fun, not even being theoretically possible to find valuable items, in a game which is literally about killing mobs and finding items. this is why people want to play fresh leagues instead.

It is more fun. I spend less time picking up and iding items and more time killing mobs. Just pick up currency and good uniques/rares.

yeah, no. more pointless items cluttering the screen doesnt sound like an improvement to the game to me. i prefer to have almost every single item that drop to be a possible upgrade.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

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fsg wrote:

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SaiyanZ wrote:

I don't even pick up ES items anymore in Standard because they'll never match whats already available.

sounds really fun, not even being theoretically possible to find valuable items, in a game which is literally about killing mobs and finding items. this is why people want to play fresh leagues instead.

It is more fun. I spend less time picking up and iding items and more time killing mobs. Just pick up currency and good uniques/rares.

also, you do realize that the only reason you have it like this is because standard is treated like a trashcan. if there were no temp leagues or if standard was the main focus, there would be no legacy items. they would all be deleted or altered to be like the non-legacy variant. if you truly enjoy this you should thank GGG for putting zero effort into standard

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SaiyanZ wrote:

There's loot filters that filter out what I don't want to see. So in Standard:

- better gear available
- little to no time spent trading
- little to no time spent iding rares
- all that time saved is spent playing the game and killing mobs with better gear, bigger aoe, more damage, more defense, so more niche builds viable.


Call Standard what you will. In the meantime I'll be spending more time doing fun stuff in my 2 hours a day play.

im not calling standard anything, and you are free to enjoy it. im just defending temp leagues which is my cup of tea

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fsg wrote:

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SaiyanZ wrote:

I don't even pick up ES items anymore in Standard because they'll never match whats already available.

sounds really fun, not even being theoretically possible to find valuable items, in a game which is literally about killing mobs and finding items. this is why people want to play fresh leagues instead.

Rofl, unless you are a new player without a clue you would never waste time to pick up yellow items and identify them. 99,99% of all good items are crafted. If you want to "find" great yellow items you have to go for another game!

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666lol666 wrote:

If you want to "find" great yellow items you have to go for another game!

oooor, you play a temp league, where dropped rares actually have a use. you are not making great arguments in favour of standard to be quite honest

I play 2 chars, one Harbinger SSF and one Standard SSF. Got best of both worlds, while just ignoring the bad.

Having lotsa fun, not having to worry about trading, screwed up economy, etc. and of course the extra challenge of having to build around what you find. It's awesome. Can recommend it to everyone.