GGG hates standard.

"

Nenjin wrote:

I work in software. I get that. I also get they have a boss who sets timelines, deadlines and priorities. They rushed this shit out for how big and sweeping of an expansion it was, and if it sucks ass and they did an incomplete job, then they are to blame. And it'd be fucking nice if, for once, they actually acknowledge that to their standard playerbase. Won't change anything except letting us know that our enjoyment isn't literally 100% expendable in their eyes.

As I said above, if GGG would come out and say standard is dead to them, I'd be done the same day. But instead they string us along because they like it when we buy MTX. If I knew that my league was an almost zero priority to them, I wouldn't buy any more MTX's. And I'm sure a lot of standard players wouldn't either.

And if FoO is the level of support we can expect in the future for std, then they've already lost my MTX money. (*cue the boo-hoo g'bye no one gives a shit troll posts)

Like I said, I've been around long enough to know how standard gets treated, and I've mostly shrugged it off as a casual player. But FoO is the first time I've actively felt fucked by an update as a standard player. Why would I keep coming back to my standard characters if none of them can actually enjoy new content updates because it's just easier for GGG to hand wave our progression, forcing me to restart and/or play leagues to see it? Let alone why would I give them money if they're going to play us like that.

"

Kastmar wrote:

"

Nenjin wrote:

I work in software. I get that. I also get they have a boss who sets timelines, deadlines and priorities. They rushed this shit out for how big and sweeping of an expansion it was, and if it sucks ass and they did an incomplete job, then they are to blame. And it'd be fucking nice if, for once, they actually acknowledge that to their standard playerbase. Won't change anything except letting us know that our enjoyment isn't literally 100% expendable in their eyes.

As I said above, if GGG would come out and say standard is dead to them, I'd be done the same day. But instead they string us along because they like it when we buy MTX. If I knew that my league was an almost zero priority to them, I wouldn't buy any more MTX's. And I'm sure a lot of standard players wouldn't either.

And if FoO is the level of support we can expect in the future for std, then they've already lost my MTX money. (*cue the boo-hoo g'bye no one gives a shit troll posts)

Like I said, I've been around long enough to know how standard gets treated, and I've mostly shrugged it off as a casual player. But FoO is the first time I've actively felt fucked by an update as a standard player. Why would I keep coming back to my standard characters if none of them can actually enjoy new content updates because it's just easier for GGG to hand wave our progression, forcing me to restart and/or play leagues to see it? Let alone why would I give them money if they're going to play us like that.

Yes absolutely agree. They suppose to release it at least one month later and fix all of this nonsense for standard players.

"

Nenjin wrote:

It doesn't appeal to someone like me. I've got like 3 characters in the upper 80s in standard, mostly leveled to play with friends, but I always come back for my top level character eventually. They're my yard stick for how far I've gotten in the game with a build I came up with myself.

Like, playing Leagues feels to me like playing standard feels to you: you find yourself asking "what am I even doing here?" To me playing Leagues is like running in a hamster wheel, gotta race race race to....see the same content again, just with a minor farming twist every time and a new MTX or piece of league gear. Why would I spend time doing that when I could keep mapping my high level character in standard? Why would I go start over with nothing in a new league to level a character when I've got several tabs worth of uniques to kit out any character I want in standard? Starting from square one has never sounded fun to me in PoE.

There's a huge disconnect between types of fun in this playerbase. I get why people like leagues. They like the fresh start, the fresh economy, the challenge of starting over. They like the new content. They like shinies. They like the competition aspect. I feel like a lot fewer people understand why we like standard though. We like progressing one character, at any pace we choose. We like coming back to the same character after X weeks or months taking a break from PoE. We like that trade isn't super important to our gameplay. We like that we're not in a race with anyone or anything. We like playing content AFTER it's been vetted by the player base and rolled into the main game. We like consistency....until GGG flips the table on us by giving our league the last consideration when adding anything to game or making any changes. "Let's invest all our attention in people that will throw their characters away in three months, and penalize the people who are invested in their characters for hundreds of hours." It certainly makes their job easier when they can develop new content on the assumption that they can just flush anything that proves problematic due to standard. Yeah, we're filthy casuals in standard, and really the only things we ask are "don't fuck our shit up" and "let us see the content." I can deal with having to do dumb sidequests to get my skill points back....but not even being able to play through the expansion content as a story? Really?

We've opted out of all the "new and exciting" things in PoE by being in Standard, I think most standard players get that...but I didn't really think the mentality had gone so far as to be like "let's take the biggest expansion and story we've worked on.....and just not really make it so existing merciless characters can appreciate it. They won't care, right?" It's hard not to feel like GGG has the same contempt for standard as their non-standard playerbase does when they pull a move like that. "Just reroll a new character then." *sigh* Every time I hear that it's like "Ya just don't get it." I didn't spend all those hours solo grinding through maps with the same character just to throw it all away and start over again. Nor would I start another character just to go through the story. If I'm going to put any time in to a character, it's because I'm going to want to actually play them as far in to the end game as they can get.

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fsg wrote:

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666lol666 wrote:

If you want to "find" great yellow items you have to go for another game!

oooor, you play a temp league, where dropped rares actually have a use. you are not making great arguments in favour of standard to be quite honest

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k1rage wrote:

but why delay when you dont have to?

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Nenjin wrote:

"

k1rage wrote:

but why delay when you dont have to?

Because customer perception is actually important. Disrupting people's shit because you can't wait a week to do it right is how you burn bridges with customers and look like fuckups in their eyes. Believe me, I deal with the same thing here at work all the time, and I fight against it here too because I'm like "Dude, I don't want to field 14 phone calls about this broken shit because you couldn't take an extra three days to figure out a problem that's going to affect 100 people."

"

Magic666 wrote:

"

Nenjin wrote:

It doesn't appeal to someone like me. I've got like 3 characters in the upper 80s in standard, mostly leveled to play with friends, but I always come back for my top level character eventually. They're my yard stick for how far I've gotten in the game with a build I came up with myself.

Like, playing Leagues feels to me like playing standard feels to you: you find yourself asking "what am I even doing here?" To me playing Leagues is like running in a hamster wheel, gotta race race race to....see the same content again, just with a minor farming twist every time and a new MTX or piece of league gear. Why would I spend time doing that when I could keep mapping my high level character in standard? Why would I go start over with nothing in a new league to level a character when I've got several tabs worth of uniques to kit out any character I want in standard? Starting from square one has never sounded fun to me in PoE.

There's a huge disconnect between types of fun in this playerbase. I get why people like leagues. They like the fresh start, the fresh economy, the challenge of starting over. They like the new content. They like shinies. They like the competition aspect. I feel like a lot fewer people understand why we like standard though. We like progressing one character, at any pace we choose. We like coming back to the same character after X weeks or months taking a break from PoE. We like that trade isn't super important to our gameplay. We like that we're not in a race with anyone or anything. We like playing content AFTER it's been vetted by the player base and rolled into the main game. We like consistency....until GGG flips the table on us by giving our league the last consideration when adding anything to game or making any changes. "Let's invest all our attention in people that will throw their characters away in three months, and penalize the people who are invested in their characters for hundreds of hours." It certainly makes their job easier when they can develop new content on the assumption that they can just flush anything that proves problematic due to standard. Yeah, we're filthy casuals in standard, and really the only things we ask are "don't fuck our shit up" and "let us see the content." I can deal with having to do dumb sidequests to get my skill points back....but not even being able to play through the expansion content as a story? Really?

We've opted out of all the "new and exciting" things in PoE by being in Standard, I think most standard players get that...but I didn't really think the mentality had gone so far as to be like "let's take the biggest expansion and story we've worked on.....and just not really make it so existing merciless characters can appreciate it. They won't care, right?" It's hard not to feel like GGG has the same contempt for standard as their non-standard playerbase does when they pull a move like that. "Just reroll a new character then." *sigh* Every time I hear that it's like "Ya just don't get it." I didn't spend all those hours solo grinding through maps with the same character just to throw it all away and start over again. Nor would I start another character just to go through the story. If I'm going to put any time in to a character, it's because I'm going to want to actually play them as far in to the end game as they can get.

THIS! ^^ Very well put Nenjin, very well put!
All your posts are well put btw!

Exactly how I feel.

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k1rage wrote:

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Nenjin wrote:

"

k1rage wrote:

but why delay when you dont have to?

Because customer perception is actually important. Disrupting people's shit because you can't wait a week to do it right is how you burn bridges with customers and look like fuckups in their eyes. Believe me, I deal with the same thing here at work all the time, and I fight against it here too because I'm like "Dude, I don't want to field 14 phone calls about this broken shit because you couldn't take an extra three days to figure out a problem that's going to affect 100 people."

yeah buy your forgetting that they dont really build the game around standard

this release proves that beyond any doubt