Donald Trump and US politics

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morbo wrote:

A more important question is: what is the "not-bad-eggs" majority, doing to stop the "bad-eggs" minority from casting a bad light on their movement? Are they expelling them? Publicly denouncing them? Are they intellectually sincere enough, to even talk about the violent & openly racist elements within?

If the "peaceful majority" is doing nothing to clean up the movement, then you can judge them as a whole and safely say that the whole ideological movement is bad. Indifference to problematic elements within your group can be understood as acceptance.

Same with Islam: a religion that is not ruined by the fact that the vast majority of terror attacks on the planet are committed by islamic extremists, but that the "peaceful muslim majority" is not doing anything about the rotten minority among them. In fact the "peaceful majority" doesn't even want to recognize the presence of a systemic problem and is too often apologizing for and trying to shift the blame for the acts of their radicals.

I have no idea how you come up with this, really.

Selective information?

That which you don't see is right there. You won't see it on FOX, you won't see it on MSM, you won't see it on right wing internet sites.

Do BLM publicly denounce the bad eggs and violence? Yeah.

Are the majority of Muslims against terrorism? Fuck yeah. Here's the thing with the Muslim world, though... If people in the developed world with access to all media can be captured by right wing media, fully believe it and ignore everything else: The worrying thing is how easy propaganda, lies (and even exaggerated truths) are to spread through a lot of the Muslim population. So, yeah, the majority of Muslims are against terror, and a lot of them are as misinformed as Alex Jones viewers.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Are the majority of Muslims against terrorism? Fuck yeah.

It is easy to be against "terrorism". It is less easy to admit that terrorism stems from your political or religious ideology. The pro-islamic propaganda (in the West) is putting an effort exclusively into distancing Islam from islamic terrorism, like the two have no relation at all. I've heard too many times that: ISIS are not real muslims... al-Qaeda are not real muslims, etc... This is called the stage of denial and is the very first stage in dealing with problems.

And BLM is a movement built on faulty premises: that there is a systemic attack on black people by white people, ignoring stuff like the absurd crime rates plaguing the black community, a culture that is rotting from within, etc... If they denounce their violent and racist members I dunno (MSM doesn't report it), but it doesn't matter - the movement is tainted with anti-white, class-warfare, far-left ideology and as such it wont achieve any positive changes. BLM is simply AntiFa, but with blacks.

The fact that there is a BLM movement in Canada and even Sweden lol!, is the laughable cherry on top of this ideological charade.

I have pretty harsh views on all religion.

To me religious people are either crazy enough to believe in a sky god or corrupt/dishonest enough to pretend they do. There's a bit of a caveat when it comes to the less-developed world where ignorance is a factor.

That said, I have to accept that a lot (majority?) of the world population are or claim to be religious.

I could blame religion for terrorism, hell look no further than crazy Christians in America. And I have done. But I won't, ever, tar peaceful religious people with the crimes of non-peaceful people of the same religion. And that is what you are doing.


As for systemic racism, there's indisputable proof that it exists. Again, depends which news you choose to ignore and which you choose to listen to. Try out not only the news outlets that fit your views but those that don't. It's the only way to get the truth.

The problem with systemic racism, as soon as it is mentioned people want to take it as an excuse for crimes of any black. Which is silly. Black guys commit crimes, nobody is saying they don't. Look up systemic racism, look at the sites and articles that deny it. Look at the sites and articles that claim to prove it. Make your own conclusion.


If you have lots and lots of almost irrelevant in itself systemic racism occurring at different layers in the system, and nearly all of it is not conscious or intentional, then you get an effect pretty similar to what we see in aRPGs. Several factors that don't matter on their own but reach critical mass together.

I mentioned the Flint water thing a bit back. Of course fucking idiots just took that as me saying blacks are criminals because of Flint. But even something such as old lead pipes in predominantly black areas mean more lead in black people, lead has a proven link to crime. So that's just one tiny factor that actually can contribute to blacks actually committing more crime than whites.

Then there's the subconscious, police do target blacks more than whites, even black cops target blacks more than whites. They will pull the trigger earlier on a black. Blacks get stopped, prosecuted and locked up more than whites for pot, despite there being no more use between races. The school to prison factor is massively biased against blacks where the crime (or lack of) is the same.

It's a snowball effect.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

But I won't, ever, tar peaceful religious people with the crimes of non-peaceful people of the same religion. And that is what you are doing.

I do not blame or attribute the crimes of extremists onto innocents. But I can blame the "silent majority" for being silent. I can blame islamic activists and leftist activists for downplaying / whitewashing the problem and for trying to "not-true-scotsman" the problem. Islam badly needs reforming, if you want it to co-exist in a multicultural liberal society, and only a tiny minority of muslims are sincere enough to admit this. The majority of peaceful muslims will still try to shift the blame, downplay the issue or otherwise try to dodge the connection between islamic terrorism + jihad and islam.

And terrorism is just one issue, the other is Islamism - political Islam - an ideology that is in direct confrontation with democracy and liberal values. Islamists are still enemies of liberalism and democracy, no matter how peaceful they look like.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

As for systemic racism, there's indisputable proof that it exists.

When I was still watching TYT, the message I got from their show is that the cops are killing blacks because the cops are racist. TYT cherry picked data that proved their conclusions, while conservative comentators tried to debunk this, focusing on different data to prove different conclusions.

Who to believe? I dunno, but I know that movements like BLM will not solve anything, just increase the racial tensions. I've heard BLM activists claim that black communities need to be police-free, which is laughable. The contrary is true - police enforcement must be increased in regions with more crime.

BLM is telling blacks that "the system" is the root cause of their problems (and we know "the system" is ran by hwite males) - while it's actually the black culture that needs to be fixed first (but you cant even say this on media, you'll be immediatelly labeled a racist). Even if you replace all white police officers with minority police officers and throw more money into welfare, it won't fix the black communities.

What blacks (and impoverished regions in general) need is:

* jobs, most importantly
* but jobs cant exist for long in an unsafe environemnt riddled with crime, therefore police enforcement is crucial
* and finally a paradigm shift from victimhood & welfare dependency into a self-reliant & responsible community.

In this regard BLM is not only useless but counter-productive, cause they advocate more victimhood, more dependency, less cops, while calling racist everyone who tries to talk about responsibilities.

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morbo wrote:

When I was still watching TYT, the message I got from their show is that the cops are killing blacks because the cops are racist. TYT cherry picked data that proved their conclusions, while conservative comentators tried to debunk this, focusing on different data to prove different conclusions.

I haven't paid much attention to TYT. The little that I did, gave me the impression that they said pretty much the opposite of that. Yeah, I specifically remember them saying that cops are not racist but the training is poor and too much directed at imminent threat, which is then further affected by systemic and subconscious (again through poor training) racism. I specifically remember them 'cherry picking' police forces that were accused of racism and 'cherry picking' those at the opposite end of the spectrum with far less apparent racism. Then specifically looking at the training methods used, which said a lot about what was going on.

If your training is to be trigger happy and for other reasons blacks are disproportionately pulled over, stopped, apprehended, then the result is a disproportionate number of blacks shot. This is the case without a racist bone in your body.

Quick search, but I'm sure there will be better results.

Relevant.

I mean, from my point of view, where I don't own a gun, nobody I know owns a gun, police officers that would pull me over don't have guns: Maybe the problem is the 2nd amendment. But that's another story.

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morbo wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Manocean wrote:

Say what you want about BLM, but they are definitely not a good group.

Again, you are just using the bad eggs to stereotype a whole movement.

A more important question is: what is the "not-bad-eggs" majority, doing to stop the "bad-eggs" minority from casting a bad light on their movement? Are they expelling them? Publicly denouncing them? Are they intellectually sincere enough, to even talk about the violent & openly racist elements within?

If the "peaceful majority" is doing nothing to clean up the movement, then you can judge them as a whole and safely say that the whole ideological movement is bad. Indifference to problematic elements within your group can be understood as acceptance.

Same with Islam: a religion that is not ruined by the fact that the vast majority of terror attacks on the planet are committed by islamic extremists, but that the "peaceful muslim majority" is not doing anything about the rotten minority among them. In fact the "peaceful majority" doesn't even want to recognize the presence of a systemic problem and is too often apologizing for and trying to shift the blame for the acts of their radicals.

If you say so. Republicans, Democrats and Trump Supporters are all evil. The Americans are evil. Let's not forgot the entire human race. How is that for broad generalization?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

As for systemic racism, there's indisputable proof that it exists. Again, depends which news you choose to ignore and which you choose to listen to. Try out not only the news outlets that fit your views but those that don't. It's the only way to get the truth.

The problem with systemic racism, as soon as it is mentioned people want to take it as an excuse for crimes of any black. Which is silly.

It is silly, and systemic racism exists in the US (I'd say indisputably so, except I've learned nothing is). But probably not in the ways you think.

Systemic means "pertaining to a system, as opposed to pertaining to elements of that system." Therefore, systemic racism means codified racism. If there exists no rule — law, expectation, taboo, etc — that pushes people towards racism, then there exists no systemic racism. If one means to make a claim regarding a high percentage of elements within a system rather than the system itself, then terms like "widespread" and "pervasive" are appropriate, not "systemic."

It's very difficult to create and enforce rules subconsciously. Therefore, systemic racism strongly implies, if not outright requires, conscious effort.

Systems can be elements of larger systems; for example, an American organization could be seen as a part of American society as a whole. However, if the rules promoting racism are a part of the smaller organization but not sanctioned by the larger one, that doesn't mean there is systemic racism in the larger organization.

As you know, I grew up in and around Detroit, Michigan. Detroit (or at least communities​ within Detroit) had systemic racism; communities were segregated and people were culturally expected to live in neighborhoods matching their skin color. This seemed anti-black to me. But systemic racism within one metropolitan area, or even widespread systemic racism within American metropolitan areas (aka Democratic strongholds), is different from systemic racism within America itself.

The systemic racism in the United States is commonly referred to as affirmative action, and effects admissions to public universities and employment to government jobs. It is racism against white people, for black people. It is codified into policy by executive order, and has been for decades. It doesn't really get more systemic than that.

And it's matched by plenty of expectations and taboos within university culture and mainstream media outlets pushing an agenda against white people.

What we are witnessing in the West is not a resurgence of pro-white racism towards systemic levels. What we are witnessing is anti-majority racism already achieved systemic levels and aiming to become further entrenched. It justifies itself by pointing at widespread but non-systemic racism, exaggerating the pervasiveness thereof and threat it poses, and saying fire must be fought with fire.

It needn't. Racism can be fought by condemning all forms of racism on principle, rather than condemning only racism against specific groups. And perhaps the first step is fighting the increasingly common redefinition of racism that believes that, as long as it's against the majority ethnic group, persecution based on skin color isn't really racism, and its minority perpetrators not actually racists.

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鬼殺し wrote:

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Manocean wrote:

I think we expected better from a outstanding community member, multi-book selling author, and role model than making fun of someone for typing English poorly when it is not their first language.

Arguments should be made against what people say, not how they say it, anything else is deflection and only someone with a feeble mind would choose that option.

We all expect diablofb to act how he does, but an extremely educated and intellectual and more synonyms forum member should not stoop to that level.

Lol.

First he chooses the "I was only kidding" path, and you basically say "you're better than this" to me.

ok let's make things clear..... I enjoy from time to time having a serious conversation and exchanges on various topics on forum on internet... But sometime and it depend on my mood I enjoy saying stupid stuff and junk & fooling around. To be sure everyone understand when I'm just fooling around I tend to vastly exagerate everything I say when I'm fooling around....


And I can tell you 99% people I'm talking with know when I'm fooling around because it isn't hard to see... So here we are.... the simple fact you get offended and can't make the difference. I just think it's so sad. You act like you're the most intelligent person of this forum while you're prolly the less...



"But I can't waste any more of my superior faculties on this. Life. Too. Short." but he can't even tell when people are making a fool of him..... this is so glorious. You get triggered by basic troll :3

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TheAnuhart wrote:

If your training is to be trigger happy and for other reasons blacks are disproportionately pulled over, stopped, apprehended, then the result is a disproportionate number of blacks shot. This is the case without a racist bone in your body.

Blacks also commit disproportionately more crime, thus the "disproportionality" of them being shot. The police goes where the crime is, because it's a waste of resources patroling low crime areas and pulling over housewives.

Fix the thuggish culture, make their streets safe, create a productive environment, which will in turn create jobs and bring people out of poverty.

Or try to do what BLM activists propose: remove the police entirely and see black neighboorhoods taken over by gangs. As long as blacks are killed by other blacks in gang warfare, TYT probably won't care.

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morbo wrote:

Or try to do what BLM activists propose: remove the police entirely and see black neighboorhoods taken over by gangs. As long as blacks are killed by other blacks in gang warfare, TYT probably won't care.

AKA a recipe for disaster. I think we should do it and let them do their thing. Sometime people need to burn themselve to learn.