Getting a shavs makes me sad.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Really whats the long term goal for someone that wants to really push a character further and further now. There is only a dozen or less unique items that have significant value and most of those require niche builds in order to make them work properly.

First off, at some point you "have it all", and the only thing left to do is the grind for mirror-worthy rares. Simple as that.

And what are you actually talking about here anyways now?

First off you complain that i.e. shav's isn't expensive enough anymore.
And second off you say the powerlevels aren't okay anymore.

One thing does not really have to do anything with the other in the context of improving your build. Eventhough an item's powerlevel is reflected in it's trade-value, the powerlevel isn't higher when the item costs 20 times as much.

The only difference now is that you can get to the powerlevel that comes with a specific unique item quicker, meaning that you can focus on the god-tier rares earlier. Let alone that the 100 ex you save on uniques won't impact the grind towards the GG rares all that much, because 100 ex are chump-change once you've reached a certain point in gearing your character.

So really, there is no actual problem, and it doesn't matter how often you're trying to tell the rest of us how insignificant our opinions are in comparison to yours.

"

goetzjam wrote:

You are chiming in like you understand the situation, you clearly dont. I kinda expect more from a closed beta supporter like yourself, but I guess its somewhat normal to get disappointed by people posting here recently.

What you are saying is that you are disappointed when people don't agree with you, for some obscure reason.

"

goetzjam wrote:

The inflation of uniques has been detrimental to the game, that is my point.

It has not been detremental to this game, it is has been detremental to your experience with the game. You confuse these two vastly different things for some odd reason, that is the problem.

"

goetzjam wrote:

People complained that they were too hard to get, now they are far too easy to get and GGG refuses to adjust the drop rates.

You do realize that the "people" you mentioned are different people complaining about different things? Yes?

"

goetzjam wrote:

One can only hope they address this in 3.0, before it gets worst then it already is. People that play standard are hurt the most, but at least GGG can change it for temp league players.

As long as a certain degree of abundancy is preferred by a considerable number of players (Don't say it isn't, because you'd be wrong like no tomorrow, just look at their reports on the perandus league, for example), GGG as a company will roll with what nets them the most positive player feedback, because money.

There is no actual problem with the game in regards to this topic. The inability, or unwillingness to accept that the game is changing into a certain direction is your problem alone. Online games change all the time, believe it or not, because as long as content is being added, and players are coming and going, online games have to change. Don't tell me I am wrong, unless you can name 3 online games, similar to poe, WOW or whatever, that didn't change at all over several years, and still exist to this very day.

To be perfectly honest, and eventhough I know you won't believe me, I can understand why you want these jackpot moments, they're likely to be the only thing that kept you going. But at the end of the day, chances are that you have all these things in your stash already. Given the time you spent in this game, which is what you constantly use as a means to tell others that their PoV doesn't matter as much as yours, the simple fact of the matter might just be that you're done here.

What I mean is, you own all the good stuff, you made it past all the content there is. And that leaves you with nothing to do anymore. The awesome feeling of running your first LL-build, for example, is long gone, and it won't come back. What's left is the feeling of having beaten the game, and that isn't necessarily a good feeling, as it implies that it is time to move on.

The issue is that you use the reduced trade-value as a means of projecting your discontent onto something other than the simple facts in and off itself: You have finished the game in regards to what you wanted to attain. It's over. The least you can do is being open-minded enough towards the idea that people who joined in later than you did, have to go through less of a monotonous grind, in order to enjoy their small victories.

I am being very serious here: It is safe to say that you're done here. Pretty much everything you wrote up to this point just adds up to: "I have no incentive to play this game anymore." Your problem isn't that items are cheaper now, your problem is that these items remind you of the good old days, in which you haven't exhausted the game yet. And if I am even remotely on the right track here, I sincerely feel bad for you. I do, believe it or not.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Chancing a unique is NOT THE SAME AS FINDING ONE. I've chanced every sorc boot i've seen and yet to chance it, so clearly its not nearly as common as you think it is.

Oh no, its too rare, so its bad. And Shavs is too common, so it is bad. Mirrors are also too rare, so its bad. Also using a Chance orb and getting lucky is different than having a drop, so its bad, too.

Everything was better in the old days. *cry*

Seriously, is this a joke? Make up your mind. Even with the old rarity of Shavs it would not have the same 80ex value, both due to it being less popular now and due to trade improvements. BTW, if you play enough T15+ maps, Skyforths can just simply drop.

Love it, I don't need to reply anymore, because the 2 posts directly under your answer perfectly reflect my feeing. Thanks, you two! I have nothing to add :)

"

First off, at some point you "have it all", and the only thing left to do is the grind for mirror-worthy rares. Simple as that.

At some point the bar was lowered significantly of the amount of gear investment that was required to do the most difficult content in the game, paired with making everything more common we have a situation where stuff is practically worth nothing except close to perfect rares.

"

First off you complain that i.e. shav's isn't expensive enough anymore.
And second off you say the powerlevels aren't okay anymore.

The complaint is not just shavs, almost all unqiues have crashed in value except t0 uniques, which have very special restrictions.


Second off power levels are wacked because its a domino effect, easier access to gear or power makes it easier to do the content.

"

The only difference now is that you can get to the powerlevel that comes with a specific unique item quicker, meaning that you can focus on the god-tier rares earlier. Let alone that the 100 ex you save on uniques won't impact the grind towards the GG rares all that much, because 100 ex are chump-change once you've reached a certain point in gearing your character.

In standard sure maybe, but the game should be balanced and designed for temp leagues. In standard what can a player possibly to do make wealth, given the fact that even finding basically one of the rarest uniques holds little to no value? This is a problem in temp leagues as well, but given the duration of the league people don't really search for perfect rares either.

"

So really, there is no actual problem, and it doesn't matter how often you're trying to tell the rest of us how insignificant our opinions are in comparison to yours.

In reality, there is a problem, i've listed it MULTIPLE times. More common uniques have lead to the general crash of unique market and in general it makes finding these uniques less special. These unqiues are in no way required to even play the niche builds that surround them, yet people lobbied they were too difficult to get. But GGG made the change, without consideration of div cards, which alone would have made these items more accessible, but without making the drop feeling of such items feel so bad.

GGG needs to make T1 unique items rare again, while keeping div cards for the items relatively the same. But its not just T1, T2 also needs changed, stuff like bor & devotos are worth something the first couple of weeks but fall to nothingness because the market becomes flooded with them.

"

It has not been detremental to this game, it is has been detremental to your experience with the game. You confuse these two vastly different things for some odd reason, that is the problem.

Detrimental to my gameplay experience is detrimental to the game in general, it doesn't matter if you share my view on this or not, because 1 you are far less experienced of a player and 2 you don't play nearly as much as I do. You have yet to reach the point in your playtime to even begin to understand.

"

As long as a certain degree of abundancy is preferred by a considerable number of players (Don't say it isn't, because you'd be wrong like no tomorrow, just look at their reports on the perandus league, for example), GGG as a company will roll with what nets them the most positive player feedback, because money.

Funny you mention money, something they have been getting less and less of mine from. Perandus was a disaster of a league, it appealed to casual idiots that don't understand the concept of working towards anything. It appeals to players that just want to rush to the end and don't give a shit on how they got there. It appeals to D3 players.

What it doesn't appeal to is players that have supported this game since closed beta, it doesn't appeal to the original market of this game.

So even if we disagree on this GGG STILL did not implement perandus into the core of the game because they understand the issue clearly, perandus gives far more reward for absolutely no risk, including a currency that serves no other purpose then just buying items for free.

"

There is no actual problem with the game in regards to this topic. The inability, or unwillingness to accept that the game is changing into a certain direction is your problem alone. Online games change all the time, believe it or not, because as long as content is being added, and players are coming and going, online games have to change. Don't tell me I am wrong, unless you can name 3 online games, similar to poe, WOW or whatever, that didn't change at all over several years, and still exist to this very day.

The inability for you to see that some changes are actually for the worst and that sometimes it takes someone breaking it down to make it clear. Obviously GGG somewhat agreed as they made shavs and other T1 uniques more rare after the drop rate increase, they just don't know it needs changed further.

Your inability to see this game will lose support from players like myself with the constant push from people like you to turn this more and more into a casual piece of shit is frightening. Judging based on the supporter titles next to your name you aren't going to support them when they lose players to the casualization of this game and neither will casual players in general, they aren't invested into this game financially nor are they invested into this game for a duration of time that really matters, they just want the quick appeal of the game and move on.


I don't need to name shit that doesn't change, change is fine, what isn't fine is BAD CHANGES, that is what making unqiue items more accessible was, a BAD CHANGE.

"

To be perfectly honest, and eventhough I know you won't believe me, I can understand why you want these jackpot moments, they're likely to be the only thing that kept you going. But at the end of the day, chances are that you have all these things in your stash already. Given the time you spent in this game, which is what you constantly use as a means to tell others that their PoV doesn't matter as much as yours, the simple fact of the matter might just be that you're done here.

You simply have no idea what keeps me going or what my experience is because you don't know me. I'll have you know that prior to the unique droprate buff I NEVER found a t1 item like shavs or kaoms, but I've found 3 since, so clearly the jackpot moment I felt before (when i never actually found an item) was what kept me playing.

My POV matters more because I have actual experience, moreso then just the last few leagues, which overall have been shit. Perandus = worst league in poe of all time, prophecy = monkey go here and do this, aka bounties, essence = actually not bad. However, you wouldnt know anything about the leagues before that, now would you, you wouldn't know anything about how the economy worked before that, now would you.

No you wouldn't you can't simply understand how the game has changed, therefore you can't understand why the unique item droprate was a negative change.

"

What I mean is, you own all the good stuff, you made it past all the content there is. And that leaves you with nothing to do anymore. The awesome feeling of running your first LL-build, for example, is long gone, and it won't come back. What's left is the feeling of having beaten the game, and that isn't necessarily a good feeling, as it implies that it is time to move on.

My fucking god this is gold here. So let me make sure I understand this right. Once i've done it, I should move onto a completely new game and just be done with PoE? Don't you see how that would be detrimental to this game's business model?

"

The issue is that you use the reduced trade-value as a means of projecting your discontent onto something other than the simple facts in and off itself: You have finished the game in regards to what you wanted to attain. It's over. The least you can do is being open-minded enough towards the idea that people who joined in later than you did, have to go through less of a monotonous grind, in order to enjoy their small victories.

So now that its much quicker to reach the end and do all that is achievable in the game I should be happy for those players, when I actually enjoyed the game more when it felt more rewarding to reach that finish line?

I almost feel sorry for players like you that think like this. This game isn't d3, it doesn't need to be and shouldn't try to be. GGG needs to keep in mind there are still players that play this game from closed beta, don't forget about us, don't forget about racing and don't forget that we are who enabled you to make this game what it is today. You should perhaps recognize this as well, without players like me, you wouldn't even have the opportunity to be playing this game, for free right now.

"

I am being very serious here: It is safe to say that you're done here. Pretty much everything you wrote up to this point just adds up to: "I have no incentive to play this game anymore." Your problem isn't that items are cheaper now, your problem is that these items remind you of the good old days, in which you haven't exhausted the game yet. And if I am even remotely on the right track here, I sincerely feel bad for you. I do, believe it or not.

I play in temp leagues, so there will always been that feeling of getting a build or two going and then realizing how easy it is to gear. What my goal is, is that somehow we can go back to a point where t1 drops matter and where everything wasn't as easy as it is now.

Playing PoE now is similar to playing D3, grind for a weekend to get geared for endgame, play endgame over and over for a week or two, in the case of poe up to a month and be done. What is sad is temp leagues used to be 4 months, instead of 3 months and currently they could probably be less given how easy it is to access everything.

"

Seriously, is this a joke? Make up your mind. Even with the old rarity of Shavs it would not have the same 80ex value, both due to it being less popular now and due to trade improvements. BTW, if you play enough T15+ maps, Skyforths can just simply drop.

We both known that t15 maps are gated :P


As far as it not having 80ex value, that is fine, i don't want it to return to that high of levels of cost, but I do want it to cost something more and be more special, clearly when there are 99+ for sell on ESC theres likely too many supply for the demand.

"

Thanks, you two! I have nothing to add :)

Neither do they either.

"

goetzjam wrote:

These unqiues are in no way required to even play the niche builds that surround them, yet people lobbied they were too difficult to get.

Show me a LowLife non-Bladevortex build that uses Solaris Lorica and does Uber and Shaper, without 30+ex of other gear. Shavs is essentially required if you want to go low life, especially now with much more Chaos damage in the game.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Detrimental to my gameplay experience is detrimental to the game in general, it doesn't matter if you share my view on this or not, because 1 you are far less experienced of a player and 2 you don't play nearly as much as I do. You have yet to reach the point in your playtime to even begin to understand.

"You suck and I am important. You are not."

"

goetzjam wrote:

Funny you mention money, something they have been getting less and less of mine from. Perandus was a disaster of a league, it appealed to casual idiots

"You like Perandus? You are an idiot."

"

goetzjam wrote:

What it doesn't appeal to is players that have supported this game since closed beta, it doesn't appeal to the original market of this game.

Hint: The market has changed.

"

goetzjam wrote:

The inability for you to see that some changes are actually for the worst and that sometimes it takes someone breaking it down to make it clear. Obviously GGG somewhat agreed as they made shavs and other T1 uniques more rare after the drop rate increase, they just don't know it needs changed further.

"I know what is good for the game better than GGG."

"

goetzjam wrote:

My POV matters more because I have actual experience, moreso then just the last few leagues, which overall have been shit.

"I am experienced, you please shut up (don't actually care if you have experience)."

"

goetzjam wrote:

No you wouldn't you can't simply understand how the game has changed, therefore you can't understand why the unique item droprate was a negative change.

"You don't know nothing and I ate wisdom with a spoon."

Side note to you, btw: I've seen the economy before and after the buff, and while I agree that some of the more common uniques could be a bit less common, I like the economy w.r.t. T1 uniques (Shavs, Kaoms, ...) MUCH better now than before. It was a positive change.

"

goetzjam wrote:

As far as it not having 80ex value, that is fine, i don't want it to return to that high of levels of cost, but I do want it to cost something more and be more special, clearly when there are 99+ for sell on ESC theres likely too many supply for the demand.

Oh no, there are 83 Shavs for sale, online right now, with only 15000 characters of level 91+. This (0.0055 Shavs per 1 Level 91+ character) is clearly too common.

Also, Skyforths (11 for sale, online right now) are clearly too rare.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Thanks, you two! I have nothing to add :)

Neither do they either.

"They don't matter, I do."


Seriously, are you surprised if your posts get deleted?

"

goetzjam wrote:

At some point the bar was lowered significantly of the amount of gear investment that was required to do the most difficult content in the game, paired with making everything more common we have a situation where stuff is practically worth nothing except close to perfect rares.

The complaint is not just shavs, almost all unqiues have crashed in value except t0 uniques, which have very special restrictions.

Second off power levels are wacked because its a domino effect, easier access to gear or power makes it easier to do the content.

Difficulty in this game is more a matter of balance, rather than item accessability, you know that for a fact.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

The only difference now is that you can get to the powerlevel that comes with a specific unique item quicker, meaning that you can focus on the god-tier rares earlier. Let alone that the 100 ex you save on uniques won't impact the grind towards the GG rares all that much, because 100 ex are chump-change once you've reached a certain point in gearing your character.

In standard sure maybe, but the game should be balanced and designed for temp leagues. In standard what can a player possibly to do make wealth, given the fact that even finding basically one of the rarest uniques holds little to no value? This is a problem in temp leagues as well, but given the duration of the league people don't really search for perfect rares either.

Funny you mention balance in the context of leagues, when the increase in drop rates was what brought leagues and standard much closer together in terms of powerlevels, which by no means is a bad thing.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

So really, there is no actual problem, and it doesn't matter how often you're trying to tell the rest of us how insignificant our opinions are in comparison to yours.

In reality, there is a problem, i've listed it MULTIPLE times. More common uniques have lead to the general crash of unique market and in general it makes finding these uniques less special. These unqiues are in no way required to even play the niche builds that surround them, yet people lobbied they were too difficult to get. But GGG made the change, without consideration of div cards, which alone would have made these items more accessible, but without making the drop feeling of such items feel so bad.

GGG needs to make T1 unique items rare again, while keeping div cards for the items relatively the same. But its not just T1, T2 also needs changed, stuff like bor & devotos are worth something the first couple of weeks but fall to nothingness because the market becomes flooded with them.

Now I am calling BS on the divination cards. The only thing that made div-cards an actual threat to the value of uniques was adding the diviner boxes, before that div cards hardly mattered at all. This you also know for a fact.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

It has not been detremental to this game, it is has been detremental to your experience with the game. You confuse these two vastly different things for some odd reason, that is the problem.

Detrimental to my gameplay experience is detrimental to the game in general, it doesn't matter if you share my view on this or not, because 1 you are far less experienced of a player and 2 you don't play nearly as much as I do. You have yet to reach the point in your playtime to even begin to understand.

Bold claims, devoid of actual arguments, without any actual back-up by way of numbers. I play poe since 2013, believe it or not, I still have that old account of mine, but I'm not using it anymore since I got POE on steam, which is also where I spend my money on this game. So really, you're the clueless one here. Want a proof? I can switch accounts, if that makes feel any better. But I guess it won't, because you think yourself as the be all end all when it comes to judging this game anyways.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

As long as a certain degree of abundancy is preferred by a considerable number of players (Don't say it isn't, because you'd be wrong like no tomorrow, just look at their reports on the perandus league, for example), GGG as a company will roll with what nets them the most positive player feedback, because money.

Funny you mention money, something they have been getting less and less of mine from. Perandus was a disaster of a league, it appealed to casual idiots that don't understand the concept of working towards anything. It appeals to players that just want to rush to the end and don't give a shit on how they got there. It appeals to D3 players.

What it doesn't appeal to is players that have supported this game since closed beta, it doesn't appeal to the original market of this game.

So even if we disagree on this GGG STILL did not implement perandus into the core of the game because they understand the issue clearly, perandus gives far more reward for absolutely no risk, including a currency that serves no other purpose then just buying items for free.

The simple fact of the matter is that the amount of money you spent on POE, doesn't outweigh the sheer number of people such as myself, who throw a couple hundred bucks at GGG every now and then. It is that simple.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

There is no actual problem with the game in regards to this topic. The inability, or unwillingness to accept that the game is changing into a certain direction is your problem alone. Online games change all the time, believe it or not, because as long as content is being added, and players are coming and going, online games have to change. Don't tell me I am wrong, unless you can name 3 online games, similar to poe, WOW or whatever, that didn't change at all over several years, and still exist to this very day.

The inability for you to see that some changes are actually for the worst and that sometimes it takes someone breaking it down to make it clear. Obviously GGG somewhat agreed as they made shavs and other T1 uniques more rare after the drop rate increase, they just don't know it needs changed further.

Your inability to see this game will lose support from players like myself with the constant push from people like you to turn this more and more into a casual piece of shit is frightening. Judging based on the supporter titles next to your name you aren't going to support them when they lose players to the casualization of this game and neither will casual players in general, they aren't invested into this game financially nor are they invested into this game for a duration of time that really matters, they just want the quick appeal of the game and move on.

Yeah, yeah, let's have a look at the supporter titles and be like: No titles = no money spent on poe. Since you're so eager to check on people you're talking down on, you might as well check my post history a little bit more, because you'd clearly see me requesting an additional MTX tab like a couple weeks ago. Problem? Didn't think so.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

To be perfectly honest, and eventhough I know you won't believe me, I can understand why you want these jackpot moments, they're likely to be the only thing that kept you going. But at the end of the day, chances are that you have all these things in your stash already. Given the time you spent in this game, which is what you constantly use as a means to tell others that their PoV doesn't matter as much as yours, the simple fact of the matter might just be that you're done here.

You simply have no idea what keeps me going or what my experience is because you don't know me. I'll have you know that prior to the unique droprate buff I NEVER found a t1 item like shavs or kaoms, but I've found 3 since, so clearly the jackpot moment I felt before (when i never actually found an item) was what kept me playing.

So basically you never had this jackpot moment in the past, so you obviously lack the expertise to tell what it was like, which boils down to you actually not knowing what you're talking about, because you don't even know what you are missing.

Furthermore you just validated my argument that you're probably done here even more. So thank you very much for proving my point even more than you already have.

"

goetzjam wrote:

My POV matters more because I have actual experience, moreso then just the last few leagues, which overall have been shit. Perandus = worst league in poe of all time, prophecy = monkey go here and do this, aka bounties, essence = actually not bad. However, you wouldnt know anything about the leagues before that, now would you, you wouldn't know anything about how the economy worked before that, now would you.

No you wouldn't you can't simply understand how the game has changed, therefore you can't understand why the unique item droprate was a negative change.

Your PoV doesn't matter any more than mine. You wish it did, but it doesn't. And just to be abundantly clear: If your PoV mattered any more than anyone else's, it wouldn't even have come this far. You do realize what I am saying here?

How the economy "worked" before? You mean like back in ambush or invasion, where people had to browse these forums over and over, and update their shop threads every 30 minutes or maybe even more often? [irony] Nah... No, I have absolutely no idea as to how fucked up and tedious that was in comparison to what we have now... Nah.. Not a single clue... I clearly have no idea as to how annoying trading was back then, let alone how the inconvenience of trading back then was a huge benefit to the individual value of an item. [/irony]

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

What I mean is, you own all the good stuff, you made it past all the content there is. And that leaves you with nothing to do anymore. The awesome feeling of running your first LL-build, for example, is long gone, and it won't come back. What's left is the feeling of having beaten the game, and that isn't necessarily a good feeling, as it implies that it is time to move on.

My fucking god this is gold here. So let me make sure I understand this right. Once i've done it, I should move onto a completely new game and just be done with PoE? Don't you see how that would be detrimental to this game's business model?

No I don't see how it is a problem for this game's business model. Because sooner or later you either have exhausted the game, or you've exhausted yourself, whichever happens first. This game isn't exclusively kept alive by people such as yourself. Even if you threw 20.000$ at it over the course of 5-6 years or whatever, these 20k$ would still be overshadowed by the amount of money that the more laid back, yet significantly more numerable part of the community brings with it.

While I will admit that your support for this game is exceptional, and almost admirable, you will need to understand that players such as yourself are the exception from the rule. Yes, in terms of supporter titles you may stand out, but all things considered, you're just another face in the crowd.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

The issue is that you use the reduced trade-value as a means of projecting your discontent onto something other than the simple facts in and off itself: You have finished the game in regards to what you wanted to attain. It's over. The least you can do is being open-minded enough towards the idea that people who joined in later than you did, have to go through less of a monotonous grind, in order to enjoy their small victories.

So now that its much quicker to reach the end and do all that is achievable in the game I should be happy for those players, when I actually enjoyed the game more when it felt more rewarding to reach that finish line?

I almost feel sorry for players like you that think like this. This game isn't d3, it doesn't need to be and shouldn't try to be. GGG needs to keep in mind there are still players that play this game from closed beta, don't forget about us, don't forget about racing and don't forget that we are who enabled you to make this game what it is today. You should perhaps recognize this as well, without players like me, you wouldn't even have the opportunity to be playing this game, for free right now.

Well, yes, you should try to be happy for others. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's very rewarding.

In regards to people such as yourself: See above.

In regards to me playing for free: I don't play for free, in fact I am pro-buying MTXs to support this game, or at the very least carry ones own weight, if that makes any sense.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

I am being very serious here: It is safe to say that you're done here. Pretty much everything you wrote up to this point just adds up to: "I have no incentive to play this game anymore." Your problem isn't that items are cheaper now, your problem is that these items remind you of the good old days, in which you haven't exhausted the game yet. And if I am even remotely on the right track here, I sincerely feel bad for you. I do, believe it or not.

I play in temp leagues, so there will always been that feeling of getting a build or two going and then realizing how easy it is to gear. What my goal is, is that somehow we can go back to a point where t1 drops matter and where everything wasn't as easy as it is now.

Playing PoE now is similar to playing D3, grind for a weekend to get geared for endgame, play endgame over and over for a week or two, in the case of poe up to a month and be done. What is sad is temp leagues used to be 4 months, instead of 3 months and currently they could probably be less given how easy it is to access everything.

Well, t1 drops do matter still. They don't matter as much as you would like them to, but the fact that you don't like it the way it is now doesn't make this any less true. I will even go as far as arguing that many of the tier1 uniques were drastically overrated, and thus heavily overpriced. Granted, back when reduced mana was the go-to for aura stacking and low-life builds, a shav's held much more power than it does today, but that is also reflected in the price drop. I mean, look at the mess that is Starforge: Overrated and overpriced as hell. Good for me, because I have no issues selling those things.

All things considered, finding a t1 unique two weeks into the league still is significant enough to bring a smile to a lot of people's faces, and that is what matters above all else, and I mean literally above all else.

"

goetzjam wrote:

We both known that t15 maps are gated :P

Eh.. t15 maps are very easy to get to nowadays, I will even go as far as saying that the atlas is too impactful in that regard. Having enabling uniques more available is something I am perfectly fine with, but bombarding players with ilvl 84 crafting bases is something I am not okay with. I honestly don't know why exactly I am not okay with the abundancy of crafting bases, but I would assume that back when mapping was a bit more difficult, they just sold better. So this is my problem I guess, but it's fine.

"

Show me a LowLife non-Bladevortex build that uses Solaris Lorica and does Uber and Shaper, without 30+ex of other gear. Shavs is essentially required if you want to go low life, especially now with much more Chaos damage in the game.

Uber and shaper are not core features really of the game, maybe shaper is to an extent. Furthermore, why would I find a build that isn't BV, given it is clearly a strong skill and probably the strongest build in the game right now.

Shavs is absolutely 100% not required to go low life, go to the build forums and look around, you can find builds that have high chaos res, you can find builds that would utilize the unique fire res flask, hell I'm surprised there isn't more people using the fire res pot in order to go low life with pathfinder and not worry about chaos damage bypassing es. Of course that would take creativity, which why would anyone really do that, when the game doesn't require it anymore because you can complete 99.99% of the content in this game "while watching tv"

"

"You like Perandus? You are an idiot."

You said it, I do agree with the statement.

"

The market has changed.

It didn't need to, the market was perfect fine back in the old days, hell I'd argue we get less as players then we did back in the day. Back in the day we had 2 different league ideas, we had races regularly, 1 week races, 2 week races, 1 month "mini leagues" now we get 1 league and race weekend, .

"

"I know what is good for the game better than GGG."

That statement, when put in context can be true. In general they are free to do whatever they want, but like all things it has consequences.

"

"I am experienced, you please shut up (don't actually care if you have experience)."

You've played this game for little over a year, you can't grasp the situation of the game before your playtime, like it should be obvious. Go to a new job and try to figure out why something was done 3 years ago differently. Chances are its impossible or very hard.

"

It was a positive change.

No it isn't. These are CHASE uniques, you know something you CHASE after, not something that is easily achievable as they are 100% optional to play the game and 100% optional for even the builds that use it.

"

Oh no, there are 83 Shavs for sale, online right now, with only 15000 characters of level 91+. This (0.0055 Shavs per 1 Level 91+ character) is clearly too common.

Thats online at this exact time. Which is what optimal time for what region again? Ask one of the API guys to give you the actual number for sale in the ESC league.

"

Also, Skyforths (11 for sale, online right now) are clearly too rare.

Skyforths is used in FOTM builds so it has higher demand, but its not really a case unique in the traditional sense, given its extremely restrictive drop rate. Chances are you aren't going to find it, but rather chance it.

"

Seriously, are you surprised if your posts get deleted?

I'm surprised if yours don't. You essentially just say naah nah nah you wrong I'm right because I'm the newer player and I know better.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"

Difficulty in this game is more a matter of balance, rather than item accessability, you know that for a fact.

Actually its both, AC classes and unique drop rate buff means everyone can easily get their hands on just about everything but perfect rares and t0 uniques.

Long has the quest to work towards a build. I mean mf is practically dead at this point, that should be a clear indication that something is off.

"

Funny you mention balance in the context of leagues, when the increase in drop rates was what brought leagues and standard much closer together in terms of powerlevels, which by no means is a bad thing.

Well of course it brought it closer, because everyone has access to just about everything. However, temp leagues and standard should be significantly different because they have clearly different item accessibility, trying to bring those together isn't what the game needs, nor was it something the community even asked for.

"

Now I am calling BS on the divination cards. The only thing that made div-cards an actual threat to the value of uniques was adding the diviner boxes, before that div cards hardly mattered at all. This you also know for a fact.

Not really true, the cost of uniques is still relatively dependent on how frequently you can get the div cards for them. Clearly the cost of uniques went down in general just with div cards, making them more accessible in 2.4 wasn't necessarily a bad thing, but not adjusting the rarity of them, might be. Too hard to say given the information we have so far.

"

Bold claims, devoid of actual arguments, without any actual back-up by way of numbers. I play poe since 2013, believe it or not, I still have that old account of mine, but I'm not using it anymore since I got POE on steam, which is also where I spend my money on this game. So really, you're the clueless one here. Want a proof? I can switch accounts, if that makes feel any better. But I guess it won't, because you think yourself as the be all end all when it comes to judging this game anyways.

Yes switch accounts, because clearly you are playing on an alt for a reason. Even posting on an alternate account in general is just bad, but its ok, switch to your other account and show everyone your true self.

"

Yeah, yeah, let's have a look at the supporter titles and be like: No titles = no money spent on poe. Since you're so eager to check on people you're talking down on, you might as well check my post history a little bit more, because you'd clearly see me requesting an additional MTX tab like a couple weeks ago. Problem? Didn't think so.

Cool, so instead of messaging support you posted on the forums, nice. You could be requesting more stash space for your 100 weta pets or whatever, so idk nor do I care.

"

So basically you never had this jackpot moment in the past, so you obviously lack the expertise to tell what it was like, which boils down to you actually not knowing what you're talking about, because you don't even know what you are missing.

Furthermore you just validated my argument that you're probably done here even more. So thank you very much for proving my point even more than you already have.

Shavs and koams aren't the only t1 uniques bro. Secondly, that doesn't mean I didn't have both a shavs and a kaoms heart before they went up in price, I did. How, well easy I worked towards it, once I got it the feeling was incredible.

Now in temp leagues I find a shavs and sell it for 2-3ex (in perandus) and kaoms heart for 100c each.

That is a laughable amount of currency for someone that plays this game regularly.


So to think what I'm missing you need to realize that even finding T2 items had a feeling, hell I even once found an enternal back in the day. But way back finding an alphas howl was 4ex, finding bor was 5-6ex, hell just about anything that was once semi rare was valuable because people wanted to make builds around them.

When you add everything together, meta shift focused around 1 build or skill, increased drop rates of uniques, div card, ect. You get this situation where anything that isn't strictly meta is worth less, the more available the more drastically the price is going to reduce, that is the current state of poe.

I mean at this point its not far off from being the D3 level of drop rates. Hell they even experimented with that in perandus, despite it being shit you guys loved it. Why not just fucking play d3 then, why must poe change to cater to casual players, when clearly there is already a game that fits that market?

"

No I don't see how it is a problem for this game's business model. Because sooner or later you either have exhausted the game, or you've exhausted yourself, whichever happens first. This game isn't exclusively kept alive by people such as yourself. Even if you threw 20.000$ at it over the course of 5-6 years or whatever, these 20k$ would still be overshadowed by the amount of money that the more laid back, yet significantly more numerable part of the community brings with it.

While I will admit that your support for this game is exceptional, and almost admirable, you will need to understand that players such as yourself are the exception from the rule. Yes, in terms of supporter titles you may stand out, but all things considered, you're just another face in the crowd.

The fact you don't see its a problem for the game's business model is a problem. This game started with a niche audience, it was those players that took the leap of faith in order to let the game get where it is today. If I contacted a dozen randomly selected diamond supporters I bet over 1\2 have quit.

If GGG wants to change the game into a causal fuckfest d3 clone, then I just wish for them to let me know sooner then later so I can actually move on, but until that point or until they breach that threshold I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

"

Eh.. t15 maps are very easy to get to nowadays, I will even go as far as saying that the atlas is too impactful in that regard. Having enabling uniques more available is something I am perfectly fine with, but bombarding players with ilvl 84 crafting bases is something I am not okay with. I honestly don't know why exactly I am not okay with the abundancy of crafting bases, but I would assume that back when mapping was a bit more difficult, they just sold better. So this is my problem I guess, but it's fine.

You know crafting bases is actually just another prime example of removing the specialness of finding pretty much anything in the wild. Previously when you found one it was nice 15-20c or whatever it was worth. Or grab that hubris throw an enchant on it and sell it for an exalt or two, now you get maybe 30c for most ones, because they are so common.


High ilevel bases aren't required for builds, similar to how a shavs isn't really required. You say well it technically is blah blah blah no one is going to use the alternative, much like no one is going to craft without the appropriate base either. The difference in cost is obviously there, but people have the choice and they choose to pretty much always spend more to get the higher base, like people used to always spend more to get shavs.



Let me ask you what purpose do you think solaris lorica holds, now that shavs is so common? Are you ok with many uniques completely losing all purpose they once had?

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Difficulty in this game is more a matter of balance, rather than item accessability, you know that for a fact.

Actually its both, AC classes and unique drop rate buff means everyone can easily get their hands on just about everything but perfect rares and t0 uniques.

Long has the quest to work towards a build. I mean mf is practically dead at this point, that should be a clear indication that something is off.

If by mf you mean party-cullers, yup, they're pretty much done for, heck, they even killed ghost busting recently. Other than that, there are still quite a few people running lake up down with mf builds. But don't get me wrong here, I actually agree that mf, or dedicated farming builds are mostly dead. I will however argue that this is not only due to drop-rate increases, but also due to the uber lab being very rewarding, along with having "content-bound" uniques such as starforge.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Funny you mention balance in the context of leagues, when the increase in drop rates was what brought leagues and standard much closer together in terms of powerlevels, which by no means is a bad thing.

Well of course it brought it closer, because everyone has access to just about everything. However, temp leagues and standard should be significantly different because they have clearly different item accessibility, trying to bring those together isn't what the game needs, nor was it something the community even asked for.

This is where I think there are two points of views with their pros and cons.

For one: Yes, bringing the powerlevels closer together makes leagues feel more like standard. If this gap is being closed too much, the only reason to play leagues at all would be league mechanics alone (Which is the case for some players already), rather than the challenge of "rebuilding" from square one. That is something that I would deem concerning as well, because a certain difference should be upheld.

However, bringing the leagues closer to standard is a good method of getting the standard crowd to join in to some extent, populating leagues more than before. And this is something I deem a very good trade-off. I would even go as far as arguing that the drop-rates of the past were a major reason for a subset of people not to play leagues at all.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Now I am calling BS on the divination cards. The only thing that made div-cards an actual threat to the value of uniques was adding the diviner boxes, before that div cards hardly mattered at all. This you also know for a fact.

Not really true, the cost of uniques is still relatively dependent on how frequently you can get the div cards for them. Clearly the cost of uniques went down in general just with div cards, making them more accessible in 2.4 wasn't necessarily a bad thing, but not adjusting the rarity of them, might be. Too hard to say given the information we have so far.

Well, some cards had a pretty significant impact on an item's value. Mortal hope would be a good example. On the other hand there is only one set that guarantees a shav's, unless someone recently made another card that I missed. I will argue that a considerable number of divination cards are a result of people having too much money, and too little understanding of balance.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Bold claims, devoid of actual arguments, without any actual back-up by way of numbers. I play poe since 2013, believe it or not, I still have that old account of mine, but I'm not using it anymore since I got POE on steam, which is also where I spend my money on this game. So really, you're the clueless one here. Want a proof? I can switch accounts, if that makes feel any better. But I guess it won't, because you think yourself as the be all end all when it comes to judging this game anyways.

Yes switch accounts, because clearly you are playing on an alt for a reason. Even posting on an alternate account in general is just bad, but its ok, switch to your other account and show everyone your true self.

You confuse two things here. My old account is practically my "alt", not to mention that I don't even use it anymore, at all. I didn't spend any money on it, neither did I play as extensively back then, I also didn't know I could bind it to my steam account. That's why. So really, it's a "data-corpse". But whatever, if you insist I can switch for the heck of it, not that it matters all that much.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Yeah, yeah, let's have a look at the supporter titles and be like: No titles = no money spent on poe. Since you're so eager to check on people you're talking down on, you might as well check my post history a little bit more, because you'd clearly see me requesting an additional MTX tab like a couple weeks ago. Problem? Didn't think so.

Cool, so instead of messaging support you posted on the forums, nice. You could be requesting more stash space for your 100 weta pets or whatever, so idk nor do I care.

Yeah, because 100 weta pets make a lot of sense. And if you don't care why even bring it up in the first place?

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

So basically you never had this jackpot moment in the past, so you obviously lack the expertise to tell what it was like, which boils down to you actually not knowing what you're talking about, because you don't even know what you are missing.

Furthermore you just validated my argument that you're probably done here even more. So thank you very much for proving my point even more than you already have.

Shavs and koams aren't the only t1 uniques bro. Secondly, that doesn't mean I didn't have both a shavs and a kaoms heart before they went up in price, I did. How, well easy I worked towards it, once I got it the feeling was incredible.

Now in temp leagues I find a shavs and sell it for 2-3ex (in perandus) and kaoms heart for 100c each.

That is a laughable amount of currency for someone that plays this game regularly.

*Ahem*, first of all, I am not your bro. I can't be by way of physiology, if you catch my drift here.

Well, I mean using an example from a temp-league that essentially shat uniques all over the place isn't actually saying much, is it? But yeah, even now shav's doesn't sell for a lot more than 3 ex, unless the rolls are in the top 10% vicinity. Again, I can see why these moments back then were special, as well as I understand that seeing these moments as an "endangered species" is something that feels wrong. But it's really just that it feels wrong.

The deal is that people these days move from one game to another quicker than a handfull of years ago. Very few games can pride themselves with a die-hard audience that lasts for over 5 years. Doubly so when players are confronted with things that are seemingly impossible to obtain in a certain time-frame. While you and the other early supporters may have carried this game to a certain point, you also need to consider that the few of you can't possibly pay enough bills for GGG as a means to keeping the game *that* niche. It all comes down to finding a middle-ground, and eventhough I am favour of item accessability, I will add that tuning the drop-rates back a bit won't hurt too much.

I would even go as far as recommending you to look at it from the perspective that now the game and its content is being carried by others more than ever before. You do have in mind that GGG started with a few people, and now has a staff of +80 people, yes?

"

goetzjam wrote:

So to think what I'm missing you need to realize that even finding T2 items had a feeling, hell I even once found an enternal back in the day. But way back finding an alphas howl was 4ex, finding bor was 5-6ex, hell just about anything that was once semi rare was valuable because people wanted to make builds around them.

When you add everything together, meta shift focused around 1 build or skill, increased drop rates of uniques, div card, ect. You get this situation where anything that isn't strictly meta is worth less, the more available the more drastically the price is going to reduce, that is the current state of poe.

The meta is the single most defining factor for an item's demand in a game such as this. Usually the high demand should result in a higher value of related items, while affecting the value of other items negatively. This works independent from drop-rates, it is a natural process.

"Worthless"? This is something that can be discussed up and down. A state in which items are worth smaller amounts of currency is one thing, the "meta-value", as well as the resulting "relative value" is another matter entirely. And I am perfectly fine with the relative values such as it is, and as I mentioned earlier, I am OK with items being more affordable, because it speeds up the general currency-flow in this game.

The meta is dictated by balance, or a lack thereof, above all else.

Drop rate too high? Depends on how you look at it, and I will leave it at that.
Do have people have too much clearspeed? Most likely.
Are divination cards a factor. Probably not so much.

Really though, it's always been like that, the only difference is that the increase in drop rates puts these natural mechanics under a magnifying lens. And this is where you argue that you don't like the perspective. I said it before many times, but here it is again: Your feelings are just your feelings, and you feeling good or bad about something doesn't mean you're necessarily right, as much as you would like to be.

"

goetzjam wrote:

I mean at this point its not far off from being the D3 level of drop rates. Hell they even experimented with that in perandus, despite it being shit you guys loved it. Why not just fucking play d3 then, why must poe change to cater to casual players, when clearly there is already a game that fits that market?

You would do well to ask people as to why they liked something, before judging at all. Perandus shat items all over the place, that was the idea to begin with. I will even go as far as arguing that it was almost intended to be something like a "fun for the heck of it league", rather than something that was to be taken serious. It simply seems that some people lack the required sense of humour. Perandus was a nice little breather after talisman, and I think it's best to think of it that way, rather than taking it serious.

I personally burned myself out on talisman quite a bit while hunting for those hopefully GG-necklaces. Perandus was the lighthearted "fuck it" experience I needed at that time, thus I am fond of perandus. It did something for me, that essence wouldn't have done at that time. And that's all there is to it. Not judging the league, not judging how it shat items everywhere, just saying it was right for me at the time, and I wouldn't be surprsied if other people felt the same way. And since I am talking about how my feelings were, I am not saying that perandus was the best league ever made. As much as you would like to pin me down on that, so you can a swing at me, it isn't going to happen.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

No I don't see how it is a problem for this game's business model. Because sooner or later you either have exhausted the game, or you've exhausted yourself, whichever happens first. This game isn't exclusively kept alive by people such as yourself. Even if you threw 20.000$ at it over the course of 5-6 years or whatever, these 20k$ would still be overshadowed by the amount of money that the more laid back, yet significantly more numerable part of the community brings with it.

While I will admit that your support for this game is exceptional, and almost admirable, you will need to understand that players such as yourself are the exception from the rule. Yes, in terms of supporter titles you may stand out, but all things considered, you're just another face in the crowd.

The fact you don't see its a problem for the game's business model is a problem. This game started with a niche audience, it was those players that took the leap of faith in order to let the game get where it is today. If I contacted a dozen randomly selected diamond supporters I bet over 1\2 have quit.

If GGG wants to change the game into a causal fuckfest d3 clone, then I just wish for them to let me know sooner then later so I can actually move on, but until that point or until they breach that threshold I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Well I said something about the support of yours already, kinda don't want to repeat myself here all over. Basically the game is less niche now, and saying that it is only due to GGG listening to a bunch of lackwits is not only unfair, it is based purely on speculation.

I will add that no amount of support provided entitles you, or anyone else, to demand that the game stays niche in any way shape or form. I will also add that you paid them money so they can keep making changes to the game, rather than leaving it as is. Sometimes these changes are something you are not okay with, and that is something you can't help but endure, no matter how much it hurts.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Eh.. t15 maps are very easy to get to nowadays, I will even go as far as saying that the atlas is too impactful in that regard. Having enabling uniques more available is something I am perfectly fine with, but bombarding players with ilvl 84 crafting bases is something I am not okay with. I honestly don't know why exactly I am not okay with the abundancy of crafting bases, but I would assume that back when mapping was a bit more difficult, they just sold better. So this is my problem I guess, but it's fine.

You know crafting bases is actually just another prime example of removing the specialness of finding pretty much anything in the wild. Previously when you found one it was nice 15-20c or whatever it was worth. Or grab that hubris throw an enchant on it and sell it for an exalt or two, now you get maybe 30c for most ones, because they are so common.

Yeah but this "abundancy" always goes either way. Yes, what I find sells for less, but what I want to buy is cheaper as well. "Relative value" being key here.

"

goetzjam wrote:

High ilevel bases aren't required for builds, similar to how a shavs isn't really required. You say well it technically is blah blah blah no one is going to use the alternative, much like no one is going to craft without the appropriate base either. The difference in cost is obviously there, but people have the choice and they choose to pretty much always spend more to get the higher base, like people used to always spend more to get shavs.

Why wouldn't they ditch the cheaper alternative? I mean, really, why wouldn't they? What's the point of paying for an item that you know you will have outgrown in less than 8 hours of playtime? There's none, literally. Playing hybrid is so easy and so effective these days, that you can comfortably wait until a 6-link shav's shows up and buy that, or get a non linked one, and link it yourself. It's not too different from way back when. The difference, again, is only the amount of time spent on grinds for loot.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Let me ask you what purpose do you think solaris lorica holds, now that shavs is so common? Are you ok with many uniques completely losing all purpose they once had?

In my book lorica never served much of a purpose at all, if we ignore the benefit that it was easier to roll it for red sockets. Outside of that Lorica didn't do anything other than allowing for going low-life earlier than usually was "healthy", while demanding decent ES-pieces to compensate for it's obvious draw-back, which is the lack of ES.

Sure you could go low-life and use Lorica as a "gateway-item", which is what people usually did for lack of patience. So in that regard it may have lost its purpose in recent days, but really though, quite a few old uniques didn't age all that well. I mean, running LL on a lorica was nothing that people actually liked to do, it was a bandaid above all else in most cases, let alone it was ass to colour. So is it really that bad, that lorica lost its purpose?

In regards to Lorica I will add that I was actually pretty disappointed to not see a fated version of it, because I would have liked that a lot. Something like +200/250 ES with an added int requirement, so it's as easy to colour as a hybrid base. That would have been fine, and it would have kept the item "alive" a lot better. Furthermore I will also go as far as saying that a fated Lorica, similar to what I described, would be the one thing that would make me agree on reducing shav's rarity by a noticeable margin. But that's just me personally, and I am well aware that this wouldn't make a lot of people too happy. However it would be the middle ground that could be considered reasonable, in my opinion.

So on one hand I think it's not too bad that Lorica isn't the "poorman's shav's" anymore. On the other hand I am actually a bit sad to see it being completely dead. Mixed feelings at their finest.

OP here, hello!

PS: This thread is going nuts :/

"

I actually agree that mf, or dedicated farming builds are mostly dead. I will however argue that this is not only due to drop-rate increases, but also due to the uber lab being very rewarding, along with having "content-bound" uniques such as starforge.

Content specific uniques have always really been a part of the game or at least since atziri was added.

"

However, bringing the leagues closer to standard is a good method of getting the standard crowd to join in to some extent, populating leagues more than before. And this is something I deem a very good trade-off. I would even go as far as arguing that the drop-rates of the past were a major reason for a subset of people not to play leagues at all.

This is homogenization. Standard is good for people that can't progress as fast or those people that don't want to lose progression, why change temp leagues to appeal to players that already play the game in a mode that works for them. Last numbers we saw temp leagues were 70% or so of the population, perhaps a bit more, post the drop rate change its not 80%, not really a significant gain, considering the negative tradeoffs associated with increasing accessibility of uniques.

"

Well, some cards had a pretty significant impact on an item's value. Mortal hope would be a good example. On the other hand there is only one set that guarantees a shav's, unless someone recently made another card that I missed. I will argue that a considerable number of divination cards are a result of people having too much money, and too little understanding of balance.

I've found 5 shavs cards alone, seems to be a fairly frequent drop off her t13 map version, ESPECIALLY if the map is rolled difficult.



You confuse two things here. My old account is practically my "alt", not to mention that I don't even use it anymore, at all. I didn't spend any money on it, neither did I play as extensively back then, I also didn't know I could bind it to my steam account. That's why. So really, it's a "data-corpse". But whatever, if you insist I can switch for the heck of it, not that it matters all that much.

"

The deal is that people these days move from one game to another quicker than a handfull of years ago. Very few games can pride themselves with a die-hard audience that lasts for over 5 years. Doubly so when players are confronted with things that are seemingly impossible to obtain in a certain time-frame. While you and the other early supporters may have carried this game to a certain point, you also need to consider that the few of you can't possibly pay enough bills for GGG as a means to keeping the game *that* niche. It all comes down to finding a middle-ground, and eventhough I am favour of item accessability, I will add that tuning the drop-rates back a bit won't hurt too much.

Another homogenization acceptance. Games are best when they don't try to be something that isn't what they were designed to be. GGG could have remained smaller and more niche, again back in the day we got more leagues, more races, more of everything, about the only things that we get "more" now is seperate language realms, which have no impact on me\us older supporters and more performance related improvements. That being said I rarely had issues after ssd, even lockstep+desync or whatever.

"

I would even go as far as recommending you to look at it from the perspective that now the game and its content is being carried by others more than ever before. You do have in mind that GGG started with a few people, and now has a staff of +80 people, yes?

Yet somehow they were able to do more before.

"

"Worthless"? This is something that can be discussed up and down. A state in which items are worth smaller amounts of currency is one thing, the "meta-value", as well as the resulting "relative value" is another matter entirely. And I am perfectly fine with the relative values such as it is, and as I mentioned earlier, I am OK with items being more affordable, because it speeds up the general currency-flow in this game.

It speeds up finishing a build as well, but who cares about the negatives, its all positives for you.

"

Really though, it's always been like that, the only difference is that the increase in drop rates puts these natural mechanics under a magnifying lens. And this is where you argue that you don't like the perspective. I said it before many times, but here it is again: Your feelings are just your feelings, and you feeling good or bad about something doesn't mean you're necessarily right, as much as you would like to be.

When you can find t2 unqiues and just leave them on the ground thats an issue, when people don't even bother to pickup but 1% or less of the rare items that drop, that is an issue. These are things that didn't used to happen prior to div cards, prior to drop rate buffs. Clearly there is an issue here your inability to accept that makes me wonder why you think its alright.

"

Perandus was a nice little breather after talisman, and I think it's best to think of it that way, rather than taking it serious.

The number one reason to play temp leagues is a new economy, when a league is designed around shitting on that aspect I don't find it as a "fun league"

When its designed around a currency that can be farmed pretty much anywhere and a sink that is just items, its all reward and no risk. This is a significant departure from league design with risk\reward and a significant departure from the currency system that has worked so well for this game.
]

"

Yeah but this "abundancy" always goes either way. Yes, what I find sells for less, but what I want to buy is cheaper as well. "Relative value" being key here.

To an extent, finding something that is worthwhile and buying something that is worthwhile gives an overall better experience. Its like finding any uniques in standard the feeling is just nothingness, now the temp league after a month is basically the same.

"

The difference, again, is only the amount of time spent on grinds for loot.

Which was far better because you felt more invested into a build, you worked towards something instead of just finding one item and completing a build based on it.

"

In regards to Lorica I will add that I was actually pretty disappointed to not see a fated version of it, because I would have liked that a lot. Something like +200/250 ES with an added int requirement, so it's as easy to colour as a hybrid base. That would have been fine, and it would have kept the item "alive" a lot better. Furthermore I will also go as far as saying that a fated Lorica, similar to what I described, would be the one thing that would make me agree on reducing shav's rarity by a noticeable margin. But that's just me personally, and I am well aware that this wouldn't make a lot of people too happy. However it would be the middle ground that could be considered reasonable, in my opinion.

Compromise leads to a stale game. Compromise leads to giving up design goals in order to appeal to the left or right. If this game started as a 9 level on a hardcore scale its now a 5 or less. That is an issue, at least put it back to a 6-7, that would be the true compromise, not 5 or less.

In terms of fated unique, like you said it would be an option instead of increasing the availability of these uniques items by a lot.

Furthermore, one of GGG's biggest weaknesses is RARELY going back to review things that need to be fixed after they make a change that makes the thing they nerfed obsolete.

Prime example is things like the scion starting area was nerfed because people would go scion to get access to sockets for builds like summoners or whatever and then they added AC classes, which completely changes the incentive to go one class over another.

Then you look at stuff like scion's ascendancy class that got nerfed, like the leech, pierce thing and whatever else got nerfed, when they knew they were adding 2 additional points for every other class, which makes scion less attractive in itself.

Hell even changes like the champion's massive nerf was COMPLETELY overdone. Again builds that went champion did it for fortify, its great it still has that purpose, but it completely gutted the additional bonuses for the class. Hell again, the 2 additional points is basically completely useless for a great number of builds that wanted to go champion.

Hell even readjusting the slayer was a massive "nerf" to champion because its far more attractive for melee characters.

"

So on one hand I think it's not too bad that Lorica isn't the "poorman's shav's" anymore. On the other hand I am actually a bit sad to see it being completely dead. Mixed feelings at their finest.

Pretty much all t2 uniques have been pushed out via power creep and easier accessibility to better alternatives.


Lets say the power level needed to do atziri when she was added was 85% or whatever, in order to do atziri now its 60% or less. Due to power creep, ac classes (which is basically power creep) and easier access to items, which again is power creep.


When this happens people don't really have a need to min max gear or anything like that. People just get max links, whatever colors they need and with essences they are crafting basically awesome rares, which is part awesome, but part bad, because in the current league, absolutely nothing but perfect rares or t0 uniques are even worth anything as a result. So those positives about economy become massive negatives, especially in a SC league.