Blade vortex, pathfinder, and CI are getting nerfed
" people are facetanking the shaper with any skill, not just BV the problem is the massive dps boost and leech with permanent flasks up Last edited by InAshesTheyShallReap on Oct 14, 2016, 2:22:14 AM
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I think most people in this thread are missing the point.
BV is a strong spell, but it's basically melee and that is a disadvantage, when using a spell like BV you're supposed to invest heavily on defenses and still dodge some damage (and when you dodge damage you lose damage!). You should ask yourself: why isn't this happening? CI is all about numbers, they should buff Life to be a little on par, maybe some ES nodes around the tree could be nerfed, but CI itself is fine. Besides the Pathfinder BV meta-builds work wonders when life based with MoM. CI itself shoud be left alone, it's not strongly related to the Pathfinder BV meta as those build are still quite broken when based on life. Some adjustment could be made to the aviability of ES and life across the tree, but that has little to do with BV. Ghost Reaver: you invest points just to leech as a life build. Nothing broken about that. You should ask yourself: where is that leech coming from? Master Surgeon is a strong node, it's the kind of node you take a whole ascendancy for, like Assassin's Deadly Infusion. All good ascendancies have one such node and there's nothing wrong with it. 10% to gain a charge on crit is not that much if you think of the 20% on surgeon prefix on flasks, wich isn't that great on most builds. Take away master surgeon and you will see a new The Harvest meta, broken as before but costlier; no one will use pathfinder anymore. Once again you should ask yourself: why is it that is so effective do invest in flask generation? So is everything fine? Not at all. BV pathfinders are broken as hell and capable of trivializing most of the contents of the game. Even worst: some of those contents are balanced around such broken builds, and that limits drastically build variety for those who want to enjoy the greater challenges. What's the culprit then? Think about it: it's Vessel of Vinktar. That's the answer to the three questions i asked before. Vinktar is the reason BV characters don't have to invest much in defenses and dodge things while playing melee. Vinktar is where the insane leech of this build is coming from (not Ghost reaver, it works with life too!). Vinktar is the reason why investing in flasks and flask generation is so effective in the current meta. Not that other unique flasks are bad, but it's Vinktar the real deal breaker. Back in 2.0 GGG changed life leech because they felt it trivialized some aspects of the game. That was a fine choice, harsh but fine. I will never understand why two patches later they reintroduced it all over again, this time in the form of a flask. The old leech was broken, but at least you could use it on any build with high enough damage, it was broken but it didn't limit build diversity that much. The new Vinktar leech is just as broken, possibly more, and takes a very particular kind of build to work: that is how this BV clusterfuck was born. I'm afraid this is not a popular opinion, but I really think that Vinktar has to go. Last edited by Martox29A on Oct 14, 2016, 2:26:44 AM
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Master Surgeon - this passive must have an internal cooldown: it can proc once per 1-2 sec (maybe more)
" As I said before: this is no BV, even no CI. This is just PF+flasks and only this. I'm Russian and I love it. Auctioneer House - just MUST be here! Most of sellers do not reply, not even talking about AFKers and offliners! Last edited by SilverWF on Oct 14, 2016, 3:51:28 AM
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" I've seen the video, proves my point quite nicely. Problem is Vinktar. Thanks. Last edited by Martox29A on Oct 14, 2016, 3:54:16 AM
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" Nope, problem is CD-less Master Surgeon. I'm Russian and I love it.
Auctioneer House - just MUST be here! Most of sellers do not reply, not even talking about AFKers and offliners! | |
" Master surgeon is half the bonus you get from a normal roll on flasks, it applies on unique flasks too but no unique flasks other than Vinktar is responsable for what you called "God Mode Leech build". "God Mode Leech build": think about it. Vinktar provides 10 times the leech of any other source in the game (20% vs 2%), Master Surgeon is just a modest buff compared to that. You nerf Master Surgeon you destroy a whole ascendacy class (less build diversity) and gate the new meta build beyond the acquisition of The Harvest. You nerf Vinktar and the problem goes away, leech returns as it is supposed to be and no build can trivialize content anymore by leech tanking hits that are supposed to be avoided. Vinktar is clearly the culprit here, without it master surgeon is just a decent node nothing more. Last edited by Martox29A on Oct 14, 2016, 4:34:19 AM
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" You - as the doctor who treats the symptoms, not the cause of the disease. Ok, BV+Leech+MasterSurgeon+Vessel is too strong. "Let's nerf BV!!!1111oneleven" Nerfed. Bugusers (I will call them like that) will find another way to have permaflasks - the video above as an example. What is next? Vessel? Ok, let's nerf it too and ALL another specs will lost their ability to save their asses just once per battle. See? Not perma_vessel, but once_vessel. So what? There is a tons of another very good potions for our fellow bugusers! Let's nerf EVERYTHING around instead of fixing ONE incorrect ability? Btw, The harvest can have the similar internal CD - nothing bad with it. I'm Russian and I love it.
Auctioneer House - just MUST be here! Most of sellers do not reply, not even talking about AFKers and offliners! | |
" The disease is leech trivializing game content. I've provided twice a link to a Developer Manifesto making it perfectly clear. Let's link it a third time for reference. Never said they should nerf anything else but Vinktar, quite the contrary, once Vinktar's gone all other things mentioned in this thread are fine. Other unique flasks too: they are strong, but not as strong as to justify a choice of ascendancy by themselves. To easily understand that Vinktar is the diseas and master surgeon is the symptom think about this: people right now are not using Vinktar because they have Master Surgeon, people right now are using Master Surgeon because Vinktar is in the game and they want to abuse of it. Nerfing Master Surgeon will just create a defective ascendancy that will need further changing in the future to stay competitive, nerfing Vinktar will solve the problem at the root, leech will once again as it's supposed to be (according to the manifesto) and Pathfinder will still be a good class to do other things (such as poisoning with flasks). | |
" You're still treating symptoms by nerfing master surgeon though because you're nerfing master surgeon for all flasks, and the harvest etc, to try and get to one flask. But you're right you can't nerf vessel and rebalance it for 100% uptime either. Which is why not letting unique flasks gain flask charges on crit better solves the issue. Now you don't have to nerf master surgeon/flask charge on crit for all flasks and you don't have to nerf unique flasks down to balance for 100% uptime allowing them to fulfill their intended design of temporary but powerful effects. |
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imo the main problem here is the instant leech, remove it and let's see how many builds can facetank the shaper.
solutions: 1. remove it from the game (even legacy items as vinktars) 2. make it work only with life 3. add a penality if used with es (30% less es leeched per second) 4. change the mechanic from instant to 100% (random high value) increased life leeched per second |
