Does GGG see us as Gamers or Gambling Addicts?

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Entropic_Fire wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Making fun of people with other things to do than play video games ALL day?

What has the world come to, I ask...

He doesn't have anything else going on that's the point, but he likes to call out other people who actually do.

Yeah, whatever. Everyone should just stop making other peoples lives their business. Let people live their lives the way they want, as long as they're not hurting anyone.

And that goes both ways.

Did I just do what I told you guys to stop doing? Hmmm.

I'm an adult, have a gf, own a condo, work M-F and play 4-5 hours a day after work. IDGAF. Come at me.

The game is fun, at least during the first 3/4th of the difficulties (normal/cruel 100% and merc up to about dried lake).

Then it gets grindy.

Making a fun game > skinner box techniques & rng.


And the crafting system is rng (drop of base item is random) combined with rng (currency to unique the base (based on random chance), which drops randomly) combined with rng (currency to maximize sockets drops randomly, process is random) combined with rng (currency to maximize links is random, process is random). Add to that the randomness of the prefix type and magnitude...

Did I mention rng yet?

Ofc, mastercrafting is an option if you're swimming in currency and essences are a good step towards lessening the downsides of the random *-fix rolls.

Let us not get into vaaling (even more rng).

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Entropic_Fire wrote:

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Moridin79 wrote:

I'm an adult, have a gf, own a condo, work M-F and play 4-5 hours a day after work. IDGAF. Come at me.

Have you ever hit level 95 in a league? According to ventiman you can't possibly exist: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1716980/page/5

I would hit 95 in every league I've played (I started in flashback) if I didn't play HC. That being said, this league probably has my heaviest play time thus far.

GGG sees us as gamers but also knows that we are people.

They want to produce a game that keeps us playing and in doing so have included a lot of elements that appeal to people, gambling being one of them. The game has a story, character development, economy simulator, challenges, races, and an RNG based drop system.

Wow interesting discussion.

(p.s. for those of you that are taking jabs at each other. Please stop or PM each other your fight nobody cares to read it. Thanks.)

I think people are confusing that I want POE to be more accessible or want it to change at all. Like i said in my original post, I'm doing fine with map drops..builds...loot. I play POE for what it is and whatever it will become. I don't want this to be like D3 or any other game...this is simply a discussion.

I was just more curious as to the opinion of GGG making more money by allowing more people to the end game rather than people re-rolling characters over and over again.

For those of you that read the OP and posted thoughts on it... thanks!

Very interesting to read people's responses.

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It's an interesting conundrum.

Path of Exile has always billed itself as having the deepest itemization/customization of any game in Creation outside your Minecrafts and such. The entire game is built to generate and manipulate items; in that sense the end-game content can't really be anything but items, which means it has to be RNG'd in some way. The map system, as an overarching concept, is quite intriguing and allows for a lot of interesting variation.

One thing a lot of players end up missing is this: maps can also be seen as a "choose your challenge level" option for endgame-style content. Do you roll up a T16 map with brutal mods and Vaal the hell out of it to generate the sort of ungodly nightmare that pushes your build to its utmost limits? or do you mostly run T6-T10 random yellow maps, maybe alch'd, maybe just alt/aug'd until you get a packsize mod, and superhero through the big bundles of juicy meat-wheat in a cathartic manner?

Progression comes from the former, but you don't have to sacrifice one for the other in PoE's map system; maps continue to drop at most every valid level. Sometimes you want to push yourself and see how hard you can go; sometimes you just want to spend a half-hour blowing up gremlins in your old favorite lowbie maps and don't care about losing out on drops or experience for a bit.

That's neither here nor there for some though, I suppose. In terms of sheer progression capability for those who feel like any time Dynasty Warriors-ing through chaff is a waste, it can be difficult to maintain a proper map pool, yeah. I will note, however, that I had never even seen a red map prior to the Atlas of Worlds update, and now I've got reds sitting in my bank I'm not using because I don't care for the layouts. That's a big upgrade, but it entails something else a lot of folks find fundamental to the game: mastery.

Someone else pointed out that they've "Done the right thing" and went out of their way to fill out their Atlas, trying to generate as many +1 map drops as they could. Other folks struggle to stay in yellow maps because they haven't worked to try and fill out their Atlas. Also because a bunch of idiots posted "DON'T FILL OUT YOUR ATLAS YOU'LL RUIN IT" threads when the thing dropped so they could maliciously sell maps at a premium to folks who aren't taking advantage of the new systems, but we'll skip those asshats for now.

Part of being an endgame player in Path is knowing how to get to the endgame in the first place. Path of Exile prizes knowledge, effective planning, and efficient use of resources - all of which are meant to contribute to one's success in the game. Mapping is no different. Knowing how to use your maps most effectively is key to sustaining maps with minimal currency investment, just like knowing how to gear up and how to plan a tree is key to sustaining your existence with minimal respawn investment. It's a skill you acquire via experience and research, and there will always be people who are better or worse at it.

There's some merit in discussing whether or not the game could tune up map drops to favor easier - or harder - acquisition of higher-level maps, or whether there should be better alternative ways of obtaining maps (Zana could maybe stand to be more helpful than she is), but I don't feel like map drops are a factor in igniting a new character roll. The best way to get bigger badder maps to progress with a build you like is sure as shootin' not "start a new character with no access to maps". One way or another, you need to play maps to keep mapping, and the most effective means you have of quickly generating new Bigger Badder Maps (outside buying them, of course) is to take a character than can clear maps quickly, roll some gnarly rarity/quantity-boosting mods, and get to mappin'.

As a confirmed sufferer of acute Altitis (is anyone in this game NOT such an individual?), I can confirm that I roll new characters mostly because Path offers nigh-infinite flexibility of character creation and I want to try cool ideas. That and having multiple high-level characters with very different builds can also be considered to help mapping more than detract from it.

Rolled up a "Cannot Leech" map my Rift Walker can't do? I can get on Trogdora instead, give the map to her and have her Vortex her way through it. Generate some new maps, give one back to Poisynne.

Nasty no-regen/elemental reflect map that foxes Trogdora? Give it to Edward, let him AssReach his way through it. Generate some new maps, give one back to Trogdora.

Staring at Phys. Reflect instead, or a map riddled with elemental ground? Back to Poisynne - Raiders don't care a whiff for elemental ground and there hasn't been a reflect map born that Vaal Pact Voltaxic can't eat like a midnight snack. Generate new maps for the pool. You don't need one character to do absolutely every last single map mod if you have three or four characters who can do all the mods between them, all working their way towards their next levels. That may not be the optimal solution according to 22h/day streamers who're level 97 and in legacy gear by day three of a new league, but it's an option that works.

'Gambling' is different than grinding. In gambling, you can lose - invest non-replaceable resources in something and receive nothing in return. Path is less a gambling issue and more of a Skinner Box one - the game is absolutely tedious at times and very, very, very stingy with the Good Schitte...but if it wasn't stingy with the Good Schitte, the Good Schitte wouldn't be good. Managing one's resources in such a way as to get to the Good Schitte is another mastery lesson Path teaches players. Without the investment and the opportunities to screw up and learn from it...well, we'd be playing Diablo III, instead. And ain't nobody here wants that.

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...I've honestly lost track of what I was trying to say at this point. Mostly went on a long conjectorial ramble. Think I'll cut there before I go even more off-base. Hope something in all of that made some sense.