Does GGG see us as Gamers or Gambling Addicts?

I suspect this sort of mentality works for some players but it never has for me, I suspect i'm a bit too mathematically realistic to get a loot buzz most of the time. I play because I greatly enjoy the flexibility of the character creation mechanics/skills and I generally get put off by the constant RNGesus, primarily I suspect because it rarely favours me.

For example when the essence league mechanics were launched I was immediately put off because statistically the chance of getting a valuable item, even with a guaranteed T1 stat is low, in some cases extremely low (jewelry etc)

Some people view this as great excitement about what amazing items they can make, I viewed it as what comedy items could I make to prove this system doesn't work as a legitimate mechanic :p i've got lots of steam screenshots already of pieces with T1 and 3xT10 trash stats and it takes so long to farm a deafening essence let alone one of the top tier funky ones that on average, you won't get anything good.

It did work very well as a boosting mechanic for my first character though, guaranteed life rolls on equipment and some appropriate damage on weaponry ensured you didn't become too gimped prior to mapping so at least it worked from that perspective.
The problem with the slot machine model is that it is very inefficient in terms of pleasure / time spent. This is a problem I am having. POE is just not worth playing most of the time. I think I've gotten a single EX in like 400 hours of playing (not sure how long I've played before coming back).

Terrible drop rate and quality leads to the necessity of trading to progress. This is even worse because now this is extended to content (high maps). So now I will have to spend my time with very little reward, and it is boring because I can't do good content. I could of course play the trading game and get a bunch of currency, but that really doesn't interest me. I'm probably going to quit soon. I just have better things to do with my time.

Also:

Standard is completely unplayable to me. Legacy items ruin everything (I'm big on balance). Multiplayer isn't great either (you're either out-geared tremendously, and barely get to contribute / keep up, or your party gets owned easily).
"
There was an interesting discussion in another thread that was related to Map drops that spun off to more of a game-design psychology discussion. Rather than bog that thread down with my own musings, I thought I would start a separate thread instead.

The basic premise: To me, as an avid ARPG player, it seems as if GGG fully understands the psychology of a gambling addict but not a gamer. There are a few points to which I could address that seems to lean towards this line of thinking:

GGG uses "starvation" methods for game longevity in both gearing AND progression

There has been many complaints about map drops in the current Atlas system. Obviously the experience varies between players since for a typical/average player, good RNG in this game directly correlates to "having fun". But in general the mapping system puts an RNG metric to progression which slows players down from reaching max level and quitting. (assuming players quit when they hit 100)

The average gambler (lets take slot machine addicts for this example), is content with performing the same action over and over again with the idea that they will/might hit the ultimate goal: The jackpot. The gambler pulls the lever, watches the wheels spin, and collects whatever they win. The average POE player cares HOW they pull the lever in reaching the jack pot. i.e. gearing to reach an end goal.

Gear progression being non-linear seems to be the part of gambling that most POE gamers willingly embrace. We get annoyed occasionally when killing things like Core Malachai and getting a Moonsorrow for example. For the most part, however, we take it in stride and know that eventually if we are efficient, we'll get something/anything that we can either use or trade away.

Now the average poe player does not like that same RNG in their progression. Average/casual players don't mind grinding currency and buying gear. They do, however, mind grinding currency to "buy content" aka maps.

You might be asking where I'm going with this so I'll get to the point now lol...

So let's set some baseline assumptions that most POE Players can agree on.

1) GGG is a company that needs to make money. (Like a casino where the house needs money to pay bills)
2) GGG does not want to maliciously hurt their players, but they do have a vested interest in them playing A LOT (sometimes an unhealthy amount) as GGG assumes that players that play A LOT will buy MTX
3) Most players enjoy playing the game rather than playing an economy (READ: MOST. I know there are players that love trading all day and not even playing but those are usually rare)

So with these fundamental points, I ask you this: Is GGG looking at the POE player base incorrectly?
It seems as most of their design decisions are meant for gambling addicts and not gamers or even gaming addicts.

So back to GGG allowing low tier maps to drop in high tier maps - Does GGG see this as a method to make players play more? By artificially extending the grind to FIND maps before running them? Does this artificial extension of the end-game make GGG more money or less?

To me, I feel like GGG would make more money by allowing the player base to easily reach an end-game baseline. Since T15 and T16 are effectively the "final boss stages". Let's say T13/T14 should be the target for 95% of the players that reach end game (so 95% of the percent that ever make it to mapping in general).

If the end goal for GGG (the company) is to make money, wouldn't it make sense to allow players to reach T13/T14 maps relatively easily where the only limitation to the content is a build being bad/good?

I believe the average gamer would be more likely to spend money on MTXs IF they spent more time on a single character: "My character is so strong and feels AWESOME to play, I should make him/her look awesome!" GGG driving players to reroll because content is too easy could actually be losing them potential MTX revenue.


So why do players reroll?

1) Player Initiated: The player is bored of the play style and wants a new way of playing
2) Player Initiated/Content Enforced: The player simply made his/her build wrong and it is not viable for end game. Rather than suffer through a poorly created character it is easier to start a new one.
3) Content Initiated: The player can not progress since RNG is not giving them maps to further test their existing build. Playing a level 88 character in a level 74 zone for example feels easy and useless.

Typically the wall in ARPG's are set by gearing limitations and not content limitations. So with the above 3 reasons, the first two are a staple of the ARPG genre...the third is GGG's added twist.

Personally I am in T13/T12 right now and feel my progression is fine, but I also know that I am on the better side of RNG. I did the "right things" and bought as many maps as I could afford to fill in my atlas so that my drop rates would be better. Many players don't enjoy spending currency in "content" and are used to the traditional ARPG structure. We all know that GGG isn't the traditional ARPG...the question is should they try to conform a bit more so they can make more money? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to allow players to play longer on each character so they will be more likely to spend more money in MTXs on those strong characters?

I know this is a long post, so thank you for reading it if you did. Just musing gamer psychology. Would love to hear your opinions on it. :)

TL;DR:
Spoiler
Sorry there isn't one. If you like discussions about game-design and player psychology, you may enjoy the read! If not, thanks for stopping by anyway. :)



Gambling is a game too. And they focus on getting you addicted, of course.

I mean, they're a company, they need clients, why wouldn't they(as a gaming company) try to get their players addicted, so they don't leave their game? It is just the point of view of a business company built around games(in general).

Their rng sucks, though. The reward VS challenge is so bad right now, holy...

But what keeps me addicted, for example, is the possibility of creating something new. Which the game provides, for sure.
Sometimes...
Interesting post. In my modest opinion, as someone working with big data, I do think the last movements of GGG are good to retain the addiction of a particular fraction of the players, which on the other side is bad for increasing total number of players on the long term.

Just look the casinos, which are all about large numbers. There are two types of gamblers, those who prefer low-volatility slots, while others prefer high. The game designer`s has to make sure that the machine pays out just enough for the gambler to want to continue playing, because of course, the more someone plays, on average, the more he/she will lose. High volatility generates a lot of excitement like machines hitting the jackpot, but any game is about getting the underlying probabilities just right.

An important issue with POE is the soft cap design where end content is strongly gated by RNG, which requires time/trade but not difficulty (based on gear/skills). The payback percentage when playing high tier maps (>14) is extremely low, much lower than the 85% which is present in the worsts slot machines, or the 50% present in the UK national lottery. This affects mostly players which are very attached to a particular character and would like to enjoy the endless journey. Players which also do not want to trade/buy content.

Atlas created a lot of expectation about end game content, a new quest "the sharper" was introduced. When I log I always read "find and defeat the sharper´s four guardians". But all this excitement vanished when realizing how gated that content is when someone reaches tier 13 maps and finds that >14 are difficult to get (no matter the amount of currency you use). Then, is when I decided to "trade for content" (which I totally regret), I reached 101 atlas hoping to be able to get/sustain better >14 maps, but it did not have any major effect during my time play.

I think the game should be less random for people to access end game content, because at the end, after buying all the fanci MTX, getting great gear, people want to face the most challenging content, which means "playing it" not "watching it" on youtube/stream. One can see that people like to trivialize end game content, how popular are ES builds using PF+VP+Vinktar + skills with high crits per second (BV/BL/Icestorm....), and also the posts in reddit/here trying to convince GGG not to nerf it...

Anyway, I have to say that I am very happy with the atlas, it was eye opener for me respect their vision about end game content. They are doing a good job selecting this fraction of ARPG players that like strong RNG (which means time or trading) and not skill/gear requirement to access end game content. It is perfect for them because rich/traders get richer as they access content with guaranteed nice drop. This is the reason why I am mostly out of this game.

I would like to see what will happen in the long term, as someone that likes numbers, steam charts show that october 2013 is still the month with higher numbers of average players and the second in peak players. The numbers fluctuate but look very stable, which means that there is a stable player base that is addicted to this design. I however believe that changing this vision would increase player base which also means more customers and therefore money return to them.

Next year, new high quality ARPGs will come out, I would like to see whether this will affect GGG end game content design. If things continue as it is now, I am affraid, I will leave this "highly RNG gated end game content" ship and embrace new ones heading to new exciting directions.

They use the excuse of the Jewller's/Fusing/Chromatic system as a "currency sink", yet they make the currency have uncommon droprate.

Then they make sure you'll dump all of them into one item, not even getting a reliable result in the end.

Can't get more gambler addict than that really.
Participated in the working of the Dyadus Avatar of Fire Templar:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/896505

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