Does GGG see us as Gamers or Gambling Addicts?

I like how you guys thinks that devs actually care about you, they just care about your wallets and how many mtx you gonna buy, rofl.
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There was an interesting discussion in another thread that was related to Map drops that spun off to more of a game-design psychology discussion. Rather than bog that thread down with my own musings, I thought I would start a separate thread instead.

The basic premise: To me, as an avid ARPG player, it seems as if GGG fully understands the psychology of a gambling addict but not a gamer. There are a few points to which I could address that seems to lean towards this line of thinking:

GGG uses "starvation" methods for game longevity in both gearing AND progression

There has been many complaints about map drops in the current Atlas system. Obviously the experience varies between players since for a typical/average player, good RNG in this game directly correlates to "having fun". But in general the mapping system puts an RNG metric to progression which slows players down from reaching max level and quitting. (assuming players quit when they hit 100)

The average gambler (lets take slot machine addicts for this example), is content with performing the same action over and over again with the idea that they will/might hit the ultimate goal: The jackpot. The gambler pulls the lever, watches the wheels spin, and collects whatever they win. The average POE player cares HOW they pull the lever in reaching the jack pot. i.e. gearing to reach an end goal.

Gear progression being non-linear seems to be the part of gambling that most POE gamers willingly embrace. We get annoyed occasionally when killing things like Core Malachai and getting a Moonsorrow for example. For the most part, however, we take it in stride and know that eventually if we are efficient, we'll get something/anything that we can either use or trade away.

Now the average poe player does not like that same RNG in their progression. Average/casual players don't mind grinding currency and buying gear. They do, however, mind grinding currency to "buy content" aka maps.

You might be asking where I'm going with this so I'll get to the point now lol...

So let's set some baseline assumptions that most POE Players can agree on.

1) GGG is a company that needs to make money. (Like a casino where the house needs money to pay bills)
2) GGG does not want to maliciously hurt their players, but they do have a vested interest in them playing A LOT (sometimes an unhealthy amount) as GGG assumes that players that play A LOT will buy MTX
3) Most players enjoy playing the game rather than playing an economy (READ: MOST. I know there are players that love trading all day and not even playing but those are usually rare)

So with these fundamental points, I ask you this: Is GGG looking at the POE player base incorrectly?
It seems as most of their design decisions are meant for gambling addicts and not gamers or even gaming addicts.

So back to GGG allowing low tier maps to drop in high tier maps - Does GGG see this as a method to make players play more? By artificially extending the grind to FIND maps before running them? Does this artificial extension of the end-game make GGG more money or less?

To me, I feel like GGG would make more money by allowing the player base to easily reach an end-game baseline. Since T15 and T16 are effectively the "final boss stages". Let's say T13/T14 should be the target for 95% of the players that reach end game (so 95% of the percent that ever make it to mapping in general).

If the end goal for GGG (the company) is to make money, wouldn't it make sense to allow players to reach T13/T14 maps relatively easily where the only limitation to the content is a build being bad/good?

I believe the average gamer would be more likely to spend money on MTXs IF they spent more time on a single character: "My character is so strong and feels AWESOME to play, I should make him/her look awesome!" GGG driving players to reroll because content is too easy could actually be losing them potential MTX revenue.


So why do players reroll?

1) Player Initiated: The player is bored of the play style and wants a new way of playing
2) Player Initiated/Content Enforced: The player simply made his/her build wrong and it is not viable for end game. Rather than suffer through a poorly created character it is easier to start a new one.
3) Content Initiated: The player can not progress since RNG is not giving them maps to further test their existing build. Playing a level 88 character in a level 74 zone for example feels easy and useless.

Typically the wall in ARPG's are set by gearing limitations and not content limitations. So with the above 3 reasons, the first two are a staple of the ARPG genre...the third is GGG's added twist.

Personally I am in T13/T12 right now and feel my progression is fine, but I also know that I am on the better side of RNG. I did the "right things" and bought as many maps as I could afford to fill in my atlas so that my drop rates would be better. Many players don't enjoy spending currency in "content" and are used to the traditional ARPG structure. We all know that GGG isn't the traditional ARPG...the question is should they try to conform a bit more so they can make more money? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to allow players to play longer on each character so they will be more likely to spend more money in MTXs on those strong characters?

I know this is a long post, so thank you for reading it if you did. Just musing gamer psychology. Would love to hear your opinions on it. :)

TL;DR:
Spoiler
Sorry there isn't one. If you like discussions about game-design and player psychology, you may enjoy the read! If not, thanks for stopping by anyway. :)



i disagree, PoE is not a gambling game, it's a repetitive game where you ABSOLUTELY need to NOT expect, to keep your sanity. IF you expect something to happen, a reward or a great thing, you will be disappointed.
I will never be good but always I try to improve.
If you aren't currently a gambling addict, they're doing everything they can to try and convert you.

Very Interesting and well laid out.
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Geisalt wrote:
i disagree, PoE is not a gambling game, it's a repetitive game where you ABSOLUTELY need to NOT expect, to keep your sanity. IF you expect something to happen, a reward or a great thing, you will be disappointed.


Other games are rewarding. My 8-5 job is rewarding. If PoE is not going to be rewarding, why should I be here?
This is a buff™
I really like to gamble but I don't gamble very much. I go to vegas maybe once a year, don't bet on sports or play online poker. Hell, I don't even play the lottery.

But it seems I am addicted to Poe this league.
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/988f3369-4b68-4eb9-bc0e-edfce4c3c950
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Geisalt wrote:
i disagree, PoE is not a gambling game, it's a repetitive game where you ABSOLUTELY need to NOT expect, to keep your sanity. IF you expect something to happen, a reward or a great thing, you will be disappointed.


Other games are rewarding. My 8-5 job is rewarding. If PoE is not going to be rewarding, why should I be here?


The reward, in poe, is not the drop nor the loot, nobody care about thoses 7 jews, this little exalt, this third void battery and thoses 500 rat"s nest. ( seriously, i dont say this because i have spent more than 4K hours)

The reward is to enjoy the game because it's fun to wreck packs with a build that we made by ourselves.


Whenever i kill atziri, i dont feel rewarded by her drop. Whenever i clean a map T16, i dont feel rewarded when i find another t15/16. It means NOTHING TO ME.

i have fun by playing. Not by how the game could reward me. The STICK is fine on POE, the carrot... nop. Well i think this is why we have thoses fishing rods.


I will never be good but always I try to improve.
Last edited by Geisalt on Sep 30, 2016, 2:53:41 PM
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Last edited by Entropic_Fire on Oct 26, 2016, 11:00:35 PM
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Entropic_Fire wrote:
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ventiman wrote:
if you are an adult and have 6h+ daily you should question your life choices

if you have no idea poestatictics.com shows average playtimes



I'd love to see the awesome life you've crafted for yourself with your limited playtime.


Still waiting on that picture of your girlfriend actually.


Making fun of people with other things to do than play video games ALL day?

What has the world come to, I ask...
Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
he is right about 6h+ daily/ life choices.


myself i have 16 hours daily, i sleep 8h
I will never be good but always I try to improve.

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