Does GGG see us as Gamers or Gambling Addicts?

There was an interesting discussion in another thread that was related to Map drops that spun off to more of a game-design psychology discussion. Rather than bog that thread down with my own musings, I thought I would start a separate thread instead.

The basic premise: To me, as an avid ARPG player, it seems as if GGG fully understands the psychology of a gambling addict but not a gamer. There are a few points to which I could address that seems to lean towards this line of thinking:

GGG uses "starvation" methods for game longevity in both gearing AND progression

There has been many complaints about map drops in the current Atlas system. Obviously the experience varies between players since for a typical/average player, good RNG in this game directly correlates to "having fun". But in general the mapping system puts an RNG metric to progression which slows players down from reaching max level and quitting. (assuming players quit when they hit 100)

The average gambler (lets take slot machine addicts for this example), is content with performing the same action over and over again with the idea that they will/might hit the ultimate goal: The jackpot. The gambler pulls the lever, watches the wheels spin, and collects whatever they win. The average POE player cares HOW they pull the lever in reaching the jack pot. i.e. gearing to reach an end goal.

Gear progression being non-linear seems to be the part of gambling that most POE gamers willingly embrace. We get annoyed occasionally when killing things like Core Malachai and getting a Moonsorrow for example. For the most part, however, we take it in stride and know that eventually if we are efficient, we'll get something/anything that we can either use or trade away.

Now the average poe player does not like that same RNG in their progression. Average/casual players don't mind grinding currency and buying gear. They do, however, mind grinding currency to "buy content" aka maps.

You might be asking where I'm going with this so I'll get to the point now lol...

So let's set some baseline assumptions that most POE Players can agree on.

1) GGG is a company that needs to make money. (Like a casino where the house needs money to pay bills)
2) GGG does not want to maliciously hurt their players, but they do have a vested interest in them playing A LOT (sometimes an unhealthy amount) as GGG assumes that players that play A LOT will buy MTX
3) Most players enjoy playing the game rather than playing an economy (READ: MOST. I know there are players that love trading all day and not even playing but those are usually rare)

So with these fundamental points, I ask you this: Is GGG looking at the POE player base incorrectly?
It seems as most of their design decisions are meant for gambling addicts and not gamers or even gaming addicts.

So back to GGG allowing low tier maps to drop in high tier maps - Does GGG see this as a method to make players play more? By artificially extending the grind to FIND maps before running them? Does this artificial extension of the end-game make GGG more money or less?

To me, I feel like GGG would make more money by allowing the player base to easily reach an end-game baseline. Since T15 and T16 are effectively the "final boss stages". Let's say T13/T14 should be the target for 95% of the players that reach end game (so 95% of the percent that ever make it to mapping in general).

If the end goal for GGG (the company) is to make money, wouldn't it make sense to allow players to reach T13/T14 maps relatively easily where the only limitation to the content is a build being bad/good?

I believe the average gamer would be more likely to spend money on MTXs IF they spent more time on a single character: "My character is so strong and feels AWESOME to play, I should make him/her look awesome!" GGG driving players to reroll because content is too easy could actually be losing them potential MTX revenue.


So why do players reroll?

1) Player Initiated: The player is bored of the play style and wants a new way of playing
2) Player Initiated/Content Enforced: The player simply made his/her build wrong and it is not viable for end game. Rather than suffer through a poorly created character it is easier to start a new one.
3) Content Initiated: The player can not progress since RNG is not giving them maps to further test their existing build. Playing a level 88 character in a level 74 zone for example feels easy and useless.

Typically the wall in ARPG's are set by gearing limitations and not content limitations. So with the above 3 reasons, the first two are a staple of the ARPG genre...the third is GGG's added twist.

Personally I am in T13/T12 right now and feel my progression is fine, but I also know that I am on the better side of RNG. I did the "right things" and bought as many maps as I could afford to fill in my atlas so that my drop rates would be better. Many players don't enjoy spending currency in "content" and are used to the traditional ARPG structure. We all know that GGG isn't the traditional ARPG...the question is should they try to conform a bit more so they can make more money? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to allow players to play longer on each character so they will be more likely to spend more money in MTXs on those strong characters?

I know this is a long post, so thank you for reading it if you did. Just musing gamer psychology. Would love to hear your opinions on it. :)

TL;DR:
Spoiler
Sorry there isn't one. If you like discussions about game-design and player psychology, you may enjoy the read! If not, thanks for stopping by anyway. :)

Last edited by Prizy on Sep 29, 2016, 3:57:43 PM
Last bumped on Oct 17, 2016, 4:27:31 AM
The tl;dr is a trap! ;)
Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756
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dudiobugtron wrote:
The tl;dr is a trap! ;)


Sorry lol. This was meant to be a discussion so didn't feel like i could sum up what I was trying to say in a couple of sentences. I did try and underline/bold the crux of the discussion though. Hoping most people can read/skim.
Content starvation sucks, to be honest. It has made me quit before and is the main reason that actually keeps me from re-rolling. What would I build a new build for? Trying Uber? Too expensive / RNG gated / will only do if I know I can succeed. Trying Shaper? Too expensive / RNG gated / will only try if I know I can succeed. T11 maps? Are boring for any decent kind of build. So yeah, unless you like the leveling experience, which is kind of neat specifically in Essence or Perandus, I don't quite know what I would build a new character for.
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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Char1983 wrote:
Content starvation sucks, to be honest. It has made me quit before and is the main reason that actually keeps me from re-rolling. What would I build a new build for? Trying Uber? Too expensive / RNG gated / will only do if I know I can succeed. Trying Shaper? Too expensive / RNG gated / will only try if I know I can succeed. T11 maps? Are boring for any decent kind of build. So yeah, unless you like the leveling experience, which is kind of neat specifically in Essence or Perandus, I don't quite know what I would build a new character for.


This is an interesting perspective. So you're saying you know the destination so rerolling feels pointless because you'll be stuck in the same place again?

Very interesting. I wonder how many players feel this way. I enjoy playing the game so when I feel like progression is halted I roll a char. Content feels challenging again and I get to use a new skill to kill things with.

Thanks for replying. It's cool to see how people feel when playing POE.
Interesting.

Well, Chris talked about "getting players addicted" when he was on Lioneye's Watch. So there's that :P
Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
the first one is always free

-an addict
Is this discussion solely for the RNG of mapping or in general, like the slot machine crafting system?
Git R Dun!
Last edited by Aim_Deep on Sep 29, 2016, 8:48:41 PM
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fraked wrote:
Is this discussion solely for the RNG of mapping or in general, like the slot machine crafting system?


Whatever you would like to talk about. It's a discussion :)

It started from a mapping discussion but can evolve into whatever it evolves into lol.

I'm not a forum grinch :D

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