Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Turtledove wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

not every build should be able to optimally run the lab. just like not every build can do atziri, and not every build can do uber atziri.

there are specific mechanics that are favoured in all cases . you can either take the tiny amount of effort it takes to convert to said mechanics. or dont.


honestly i feel this is mostly the result of ggg failing in the past to punish people for making flawed and squishy glass cannon builds that relied too much on a few broken mechanics to work.

like build abusing high hp pools leech and vaal pact to become immortal so long as they did damage.
or es builds that just had huge hp pools... and nothing else
or builds were 100% dependent on flasks.

Those builds are all overly specialized. and the price is they are shit when they arent doing what they are good at.

I don't claim to be a labyrinth expert but, I've read a whole bunch. It appears to me that the labyrinth traps are much less balanced across different builds than Atziri, to use your example. There seems to be two attributes, life regen and movement speed, that can make labyrinth traps pretty easy. If a build doesn't have at least one of those two attributes then labyrinth becomes much more difficult. Of course, life regen rules in the labyrinth but I've played a character with high movement speed and the labyrinth was pretty easy. There was a post that said they played almost the same builds only one was 20% movement speed and the other was over 50% and the 50% was easy and the 20% one was significantly harder. I don't think the same is true for Atziri is it? I mean that there is more combinations of good builds with different attributes than just two that can beat Atziri. My assumption with this is that labyrinth is really poorly designed/balanced to be a good "test" or "gate" for something as universally important as ascendancy points.

Another attribute helps, which is proper use of movement skills.


My pathfinder is probably my best character for running the buffed lab, my bow character might be able to do the first 3 labs quicker due to more movement speed and generally not needing to worry about defenses, but the BV character is the one more likely to be able to do the challenging one.

People say life regen is this needed and amazing thing in the lab, it simply isn't true. My pathfinder has 0 life regen (because VP). I could change the build around and get life regen and share my atziri's acuities with the character, but I haven't felt it really being necessary to do so and my playtime in the league is coming to a stop.

I don't recall the movement speed of the character, but it has harrier, 30ms boots and maybe a couple of movement passives in the tree, with phase run its probably like 100ms or so and due to skill duration in my tree and the increased skill effect duration gem I can chain it back to back, with or without frenzy charges, assuming I dont stop to cast BV along the way (aka interrupt it)



As for the comparison to atziri I don't think that is the right line of thinking, while atziri is a set of various challenging mods, the content was designed before players got this much power. People can beat atziri with positioning and technique or they can just destroy her with insane DPS.


Who says the lab needs to be a test or a benchmark for a build? Its the challenge required to earn the AC points. Its not like the content is impossible for really any build, not only because it doesn't have to be done solo, but because you don't have to let the boss enrage, you can plan for the various challenges and unless you absolutely have to run it right when it resets or masters change you can go into the fight knowing what challenge awaits you.

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Pyrokar wrote:

This is Uber lab in hc today. I did Uber lab for the first time. Let's play find the safe space! Hint there isn't any, you just use quicksilver, run and pray to not die. The trap sequence ended 3 screens after this one. 10/10 would do it in hc again.

The spiked traps alternate, those that aren't up now, will go up when the ones that are up now go down. You can see the timing and avoid the traps that do damage. The new trap, which provide the curse auras can be killed from range. Its the one really punishing anti melee mechanic they added, but you can still find ways to kill them from range if you need to.

It looks like at the top there by that temp chains aura there is a spot with no spikes to assess the next series of traps\challenge.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

This is Uber lab in hc today. I did Uber lab for the first time. Let's play find the safe space! Hint there isn't any, you just use quicksilver, run and pray to not die. The trap sequence ended 3 screens after this one. 10/10 would do it in hc again.

The spiked traps alternate, those that aren't up now, will go up when the ones that are up now go down. You can see the timing and avoid the traps that do damage. The new trap, which provide the curse auras can be killed from range. Its the one really punishing anti melee mechanic they added, but you can still find ways to kill them from range if you need to.

It looks like at the top there by that temp chains aura there is a spot with no spikes to assess the next series of traps\challenge.

Nope sry, where there arent any timed spike traps, there were trigger spike traps with sentries flying on top of them and the sentries fly up until the end of the room including over that ledge you say has no spikes.

Seriously, run and pray gameplay on hc. Uber izzaro was nothing for my build but 2sec on a trap and i am dead. Great design.

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Pyrokar wrote:

Nope sry, where there arent any timed spike traps, there were trigger spike traps with sentries flying on top of them and the sentries fly up until the end of the room including over that ledge you say has no spikes.

Seriously, run and pray gameplay on hc. Uber izzaro was nothing for my build but 2sec on a trap and i am dead. Great design.

The spiked traps aren't triggered, they follow a pattern, a sequence something you can learn and predict. The roombas are on a pattern as well.


Its not like the lab is any different on HC then it is on SC. One of the 40\40 challenges that I did was uber izzaro, so its not like I haven't ran the lab and encountered similar trap setups before.

If it took 2 seconds to die on the traps (which it should take more), did you not have flask charges?

Look at the picture again plz. There are triggered spiked traps on top of the sentries, that trigger when you step on them. I didn't say they are different on sc, but asking a hc player to run and pray not to die is bad design.

And no, i didn't die. If i afk for 2 sec on a blade sentry i am dead. If i afk for 2 seconds on Uber izaro i am nowhere near as dead. Maybe if it was 30+ seconds.

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Pyrokar wrote:

Look at the picture again plz. There are triggered spiked traps on top of the sentries, that trigger when you step on them. I didn't say they are different on sc, but asking a hc player to run and pray not to die is bad design.

Those are FLOOR SPIKES, they are just like the ones you see in the trials, they alternate which ones are up and which ones are down, they are predicable and 100% avoidable if you learn the pattern.

I see the sentry, I don't recall this specific encounter, but the sentry is avoidable as well, they always are.


There is no just pray to not die, you simply don't understand the mechanics involved and therefore call the design shitty. The trials were\are there to introduce you to the mechanics, if you got rushed thru them or ignored them, then its no surprise to me that you don't understand the challenge.

Ok look right infront of my feet, what do you call that trap? I call it a triggered spike trap that triggers if i step on it.

Also, it's irrelevant if it's avoidable 100% by your leet sonic skills. There is no safe space to see whats going on ahead and that in hc means it's run and pray not to die.

Also, saying that someone who did all uber trials and uber lab in hc is unable to understand the mechanics is very valid. Wow. Much argument.

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I don't claim to be a labyrinth expert but, I've read a whole bunch. It appears to me that the labyrinth traps are much less balanced across different builds than Atziri, to use your example. There seems to be two attributes, life regen and movement speed, that can make labyrinth traps pretty easy. If a build doesn't have at least one of those two attributes then labyrinth becomes much more difficult. Of course, life regen rules in the labyrinth but I've played a character with high movement speed and the labyrinth was pretty easy. There was a post that said they played almost the same builds only one was 20% movement speed and the other was over 50% and the 50% was easy and the 20% one was significantly harder. I don't think the same is true for Atziri is it? I mean that there is more combinations of good builds with different attributes than just two that can beat Atziri. My assumption with this is that labyrinth is really poorly designed/balanced to be a good "test" or "gate" for something as universally important as ascendancy points.

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As for the comparison to atziri I don't think that is the right line of thinking, while atziri is a set of various challenging mods, the content was designed before players got this much power. People can beat atziri with positioning and technique or they can just destroy her with insane DPS.

it is a perfect comparison. both are mechanic tests.
in one it is all about how well one can deal with the attrition of traps
the other is how good you are at neutralizing the bulk of the atziri map damage.

both have well established critera for success.

for atziri its either make her attacks do nothing to you. or kill her before she attacks you.
for lab its run fast enough so dot doesnt murder you. or have enough life regen so that dot doesnt matter to you.

and the middle grounds that fall between the two extremes

they are perfect comparisons to each other. especially since neither are technically mandatory for beating the game... just desired.. heavily

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goetzjam wrote:

Who says the lab needs to be a test or a benchmark for a build?

Many people have said that lab is a test of the build. I thought you had said it but maybe not. It is a favorite Sidtherat statement as another example then.

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Pyrokar wrote:

Ok look right infront of my feet, what do you call that trap? I call it a triggered spike trap that triggers if i step onto it.

Also, it's irrelevant if it's avoidable 100% by your leet sonic skills. There is no safe space to see whats going on ahead and that in hc means it's run and pray not to die.

I marked this image so it is easier to see.

The yellow is circling the trigger things you are referring to, which are 100% avoidable.

The 1's and 2's are showing the sequence, when 1 goes down 2 will go up, when 2 goes down 1 will go up.

3 is the safe spot in this series of traps to assess the next series of traps.

You could address this in many ways:



Or you could yolo panic like you did and just run in and die.

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Many people have said that lab is a test of the build. I thought you had said it but maybe not. It is a favorite Sidtherat statement as another example then.

I mean I do view it as a test if your build is worthy of ascension, but doing the lab isn't a test to prove you can do XX content, except the lab itself, because its rather unique.