No incentive levelling past 90 in standard

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Mentoya wrote:

How can people say that the few extra passive points don't make a difference? I mean if you got all health passives, you may end up with quite a bit more health.... How is that not big? Am I missing something here? This is just one example......

You really should have all your health/ES nodes by 70-80 if not earlier. At that point after 90 you can pick up a few damage notables or Jewels with most builds. This will give you some damage boost, but at that point you've already got so much increased damage from the tree and gear anyways that diminishing returns starts to kick in hard and your DPS won't rise all that much. What's another 60% increased damage when you've already got 400-600% increased already?

I can understand what you are saying. I still think the biggest incentive for me reaching level 100 is knowing that I can die over and over again without experience loss. I mean how many of us +90 characters refuse to run a difficult high end map because we don't want to die and lose the hard earned experience? So that's my biggest incentive to get to 100. I want to run the more riskier maps. Yes I know you can do this right when you obtain a new level too, but it's not the same, because even if you build up 5% and only lose that 5% due to being newly leveled, you are still going to be pissed you lost that 5%

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LoPan wrote:

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SpanishMonarch wrote:

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LoPan wrote:

You're trying very hard to sound intelligent while completely missing the fact that ones incentives are a matter of perspective. A perspective varying from one person to the next. Pretty ironic calling someone delusional while being delusional yourself in thinking your opinion matters more than anyone's else's opinion on why they would chose to level or not.

TLDR; ur a pretty self important narcissist who isn't important at all.

(...) But the actual incentive to play is gone (...)

The thing is no one used the word wrong to begin with. You were trying to passively aggressively undermine the guy for using the term properly with that long winded wall of pointless text. I was just clarifying what a snobby prick you came off as while trying to correct something that didn't need correction.

100% agreed. Everyone has their own motivation for playing, and incentives exist in Standard, even if they don't mean much to SpanishMonarch. He just can't wrap his head around that fact.

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BlaqWolf wrote:

Quite the thread of anger and vitriol.

After 90 it's almost entirely about risk, not enough about reward. Reward is the incentive, and GGG has removed it. Yes, some dogs will cross scalding hot summer pavement for as little as a cheerio but by and large most won't.

The CP penalty, considering how much they've gimped XP, is far too steep and should honestly just be removed. It makes sense in Cruel, perhaps, when you loose maybe a few minutes or hour of play to recoup... but when you're talking multiple hours if not multiple days? Yeah, serious risk!=reward failure.

That is the incentive I don't see - there's no reason, other than that mirage someone spoke of earlier. Something put out on the horizon because some dogs will chase anything.

This or gave un-nerf back exp as it was before 2.3

Also buff content and maps FFS! Most maps has 50/50 portions with monster and nothing. Wheres Warbands in maps (not "unique" almost NEVER show up boxes), wheres perandus monsters (dont care about coins or cadiro, but at least monsters should be), wheres Talismans possess monsters, wheres rigwalds, wheres Invasion Bosses? Why so much content was vendored and not added to the core game? Why? Even without uniques or without special items, but just monsters at least!? WTF?

Level 90? Id argue its pointless taking most builds past level 85. The reward/incentive just isn't there for leveling much past 90. Its not like maps high enough level to give you experience drop commonly enough.

The most I'm ever going to play PoE in any 1 league is get 1-2 characters to 80-90, then I'm done with the game for awhile. There is nothing interesting enough to keep me around for longer. Definitely nothing interesting enough to keep me playing every league for the full duration. When I quit in these leagues, I typically give my gear and resources to the people who will play the entire league. I'd be a very rich player if I kept all my builds/items from all previous leagues and let them carry down to standard. But none of that matters if the game isn't fun to play after a certain cutoff point. For me that's level 85-90 range. Running tier 8 maps consistently is about as high as I go, much past that isn't sustainable, or the maps and prices start going up on maps quickly.

I don't like teaming for maps usually. I almost always run into complete opposite sides of the spectrum where I'm either carrying the entire team, or 1 person is running a GGs build like a CoC cyclone discharger and is killing everything and making the experience really boring for me. Non-CoC builds typically get left in the dust on teams. I'm glad they're nerfing CoC. I've played ARPGs for years and some of these CoC builds are as OP as anything I've seen in ARPGs, and the fact that GGG has completely gutted builds that weren't even 1/10th as OP and let something like this go on for as long as it has doesn't give me much faith in their wisdom as a development team. I haven't been vocal about calling for CoC nerfs, but as soon as I found out they're nerfing it, I'm OK with it.

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Mentoya wrote:

I can understand what you are saying. I still think the biggest incentive for me reaching level 100 is knowing that I can die over and over again without experience loss. I mean how many of us +90 characters refuse to run a difficult high end map because we don't want to die and lose the hard earned experience? So that's my biggest incentive to get to 100. I want to run the more riskier maps. Yes I know you can do this right when you obtain a new level too, but it's not the same, because even if you build up 5% and only lose that 5% due to being newly leveled, you are still going to be pissed you lost that 5%

but the reason you care about the xp is because thats what you are playing for. Why would you want to run high lvl maps on a char who cant get any xp any more? For most people I think youll find theres no real reason to. Added to this, youre not supposed to die, they dont want to give you an easy lvl100 just so that you can stop caring about death, if anything that perspective is going to inspire them to make it harder to get there.

Theres no reason why ppl should be dying. If you die a significant amount then you should be looking at whats gone wrong and fixing it. This is a game where its possible to do things wrong, its not the games fault if your character doesnt face roll it while being immortal.




Im lvling a char on std atm, at lvl90 Im getting 3% xp from a t9 map, which is a very mid level map. This means I could lvl from 90 to 91 in a single day playing only mid lvl maps if I put my back into it. Not rly seeing the issue with prelvl90 xp here tbh.

Honestly, and this isnt directed at any one individual, but I feel that theres a lot of talk about xp and getting to lvl100 atm on the forums atm and most of the people complaining dont deserve to have lvl100 chars. Theyre talking about dying, xp penalty, being unable to run high maps or hard rolled maps etc. What those people need to do is reroll, and then reroll, and then reroll, and somewhere in these rerolls learn how to build characters that work. If you havent worked out how to build good characters yet why do you think you deserve to get to lvl100? If you keep dying and cant level up the game is essentially telling you theres a flaw in what you are doing.

I made tons of characters that sucked at first, I kept remaking them until I worked out what was required to not die. I still to this day have no real playing skill worth talking about but I know the size of the numbers I need on my % passives and on my gears defenses to end up with a character who can survive the content it needs to survive. Theres no skill in that I simply took the time to play a bunch of different characters and found out what worked.

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Verthurnax wrote:

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Hunwulf wrote:

Wait, noone said learn to play in this very, very useful thread?!

Ok, then : l2p!

you have only one char to 90, maybe you should l2p ?

Well, this was more an Sarcastic note, but anyway.
I, for myself, find it tedious too to play after 90.

And if you ever got HC chars past 90, feel free to continue this discussion with me ;)

cheers

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Mentoya wrote:

I can understand what you are saying. I still think the biggest incentive for me reaching level 100 is knowing that I can die over and over again without experience loss. I mean how many of us +90 characters refuse to run a difficult high end map because we don't want to die and lose the hard earned experience? So that's my biggest incentive to get to 100. I want to run the more riskier maps. Yes I know you can do this right when you obtain a new level too, but it's not the same, because even if you build up 5% and only lose that 5% due to being newly leveled, you are still going to be pissed you lost that 5%

You realize that happens at level 92... or 90... or 85 for that matter. You never lose a level. If you set your cap at 85 and die a lot, you never have to worry about experience loss. You just sit at your cap forever. Nothing special about 100 in that regard.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

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Mentoya wrote:

I can understand what you are saying. I still think the biggest incentive for me reaching level 100 is knowing that I can die over and over again without experience loss. I mean how many of us +90 characters refuse to run a difficult high end map because we don't want to die and lose the hard earned experience? So that's my biggest incentive to get to 100. I want to run the more riskier maps. Yes I know you can do this right when you obtain a new level too, but it's not the same, because even if you build up 5% and only lose that 5% due to being newly leveled, you are still going to be pissed you lost that 5%

You realize that happens at level 92... or 90... or 85 for that matter. You never lose a level. If you set your cap at 85 and die a lot, you never have to worry about experience loss. You just sit at your cap forever. Nothing special about 100 in that regard.

To expand a bit on what Shag's said. you can get to lvl 91-92 and then run your insane maps and see if you can do it without dying. I think in one of Mathil's latest video's about his Bino's reaver he mentions dying several times doing both Uber and Core/double core.

Getting a level past 90 and doing a map with insane mod's aren't exactly the same thing. The leveling process is intentionally supposed to be long and show that you've done a lot of content without making too many mistakes. Being able to do one map that is crazy hard just acts as a benchmark to what your skill level/build/gear combined can handle.

With that being said... If you can clear a double boss core but it takes you an hour (or even 30 min) but you can clear a double pack size plateau in 5-10 you're probably going to get a lot better XP and loot from the plateau's. And I think that's something a lot of people have issue with. That there's no real incentive to run those insane maps (dying or no). At least as far as XP is concerned.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Mentoya wrote:

I can understand what you are saying. I still think the biggest incentive for me reaching level 100 is knowing that I can die over and over again without experience loss. I mean how many of us +90 characters refuse to run a difficult high end map because we don't want to die and lose the hard earned experience? So that's my biggest incentive to get to 100.

but the reason you care about the xp is because thats what you are playing for.

Yup, exactly. To use the reasoning of never worrying about XP loss on a level 100 character, as stated by Mentoya, is misplaced. Sure, that's an outcome, but the same outcome can be obtained by running a level 80 or 90 character and not ever worrying about XP gain, because XP loss doesn't revert levels.

High level characters are good for farming currency and items for our other characters. They're not even good for mindless ARPG enjoyment unless we're running low level instances, because high level maps required some level of concentration to be cautious if we don't want that character to die.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

...and then reroll, and then reroll, and somewhere in these rerolls learn how to build characters that work. I made tons of characters that sucked at first, I kept remaking them until I worked out what was required to not die.

Indeed. However, if other players have to reroll over and over again because their builds suck, they're better off using a proven build that's published within the community. And they can always level far enough to have a ton of respec points, then wipe and start again on their passive skill tree. Or just wait until the next major PoE update when we get free re-specs.

That's one thing I love about PoE: if you're not happy with your build, you get to try, try, again, even on the same character. Even the choices made in Act 2 can be changed. Each character leveled is a chance to explore, and then later re-build or perfect a build.