Premium Tabs are pay to win

There is nothing "new" about trade tabs, they do the same exact thing that 3rd party software can do for free, without breaking ToS and without "anymore" time then it takes to use the paid tabs.

I know I used acquisition for years, now I use the trade tabs, they are literally the same fucking thing.

Actually Acquisition is superior to premium tabs

three ways so far I have found premium tabs inferior so far.

Cant search global for items its tab by tab

Cant disable shop tabs instantly takes days to stop appearing making standard to ladder switching full of annoying requests where u do not reside.

Makes people know how long item has been for sale and can low ball you with that info. As acquisition update shop threads timer reset.

Every stash tab I have is premium but I'm back to using Acquisition to trade.

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allbusiness wrote:

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morbo wrote:

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jackof8lades wrote:

I have 52 premium tabs what did i win? and where can i claim my winnings?
Am i being scammed by ggg?
I demand my winnings!

But do you have also the pay-to-win fireworks? Only with fireworks you can get a 6-link in under 100 fuse.

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Druga1757 wrote:

Because the free version is not part of the game. There is no equivalent functionality, ingame, for free. For a new player, acquisition or procurement don't even exist.

There is - manually creating a shop in trade forum is part of the game. It's kinda clumsy, but so are regular tabs vs premium tabs. You pay for convenience.

Funny tho, the "hub" that ties all this trading together (poe.trade), is also not a part of the game! So premium stash tabs are actually "pay to win with 3rd party software" :)

srs, this debate... Give five dolla to GGG and stop this charade -_-

Paying for convenience is pay to win.


If you implemented automatic 6 linking to be bought in the cash shop, I could argue that anyone can achieve 6 links if they invest enough time, thus it's not a pay to win option. Legitimately anyone can do it if enough time is invested.

However, you and everyone else would argue it's pay to win. Tabs are the same thing, just to a lesser degree. They are pay to win, no matter what anyone tries to argue or say. They save time, just not as much time as other potential cash items could.

Yes tabs themselves are a valid argument. Getting rich is a numbers game. Just like getting a girlfriend(s) ask 100 you will get one.

Same with sellin anything really - numbers gets bites.

More tabs > more item can be placed into market > more sales > more money > better gear = win

So I would change thread title to "Tabs are pay to win" to be accurate.

Looks like I missed a tail end on a fun debate. Premium tabs can be a bit of a catch 22. People in game require knowledge to take advantage of things like acquisition and poe.trade. People in game do not require any knowledge to know that listing items in a premium tab will generate sales. They simply need a premium tab.

So even if we dismiss entirely that the premium tab offers an advantage directly over acquisition or procurement (which it does because of speed of listing and account verification), you're still going to have people without perfect knowledge. Without perfect knowledge means that items will enter the market much quicker and easier using the in game tools. People with knowledge will then take advantage of it, and either score great deals, or just find what they're looking for that much easier. This will benefit the person in game even if they're undersold, because it'll allow them to move product where they otherwise would not have been able to.

The existence of a third party tool then is, well, moot. It is only interesting to me in that, path of exile allowed the existence of another tool to do the same thing after introducing the trade tab functionality. This means they are trying to be respectable. But lets be honest here, premium tabs are very much pay to win. So are stash tabs in general. Sure, you can get by with four tabs, but you also cannot hoard valuable items, have to either sell or vendor items that you aren't going to use swiftly, or constantly use mule accounts or characters wasting valuable time.

Bringing up procurement and acquisition in this argument just makes it clear that it is pay to win.

Does GGG offer download of such tools and provides a tutorial on using them? If so, we can possibly come to some sort of a compromise.
If not, then where is the debate?

In a game where the devs have on multiple occasions said : " poe will never be p2w " and " trading is the core of the experience " we have the following situation.

" New users have to pay with $$$ to trade ".

Please destroy that argument with : " You can jump through seven hoops and pray to baby jesus that he gives you the power to use 3rd party tools to play a game " Go ahead, make that argument. Its toilet paper thin.

My friend will ofcourse buy the premium tabs if he continues to play the game, and i will encourage him to do so for the time being. But let us not ignore the paradigm shift and the direction of the game. It has changed, and the formula that brought many of use here is no longer valid.

Cheers,
btw lab sucks,
btw, goetzjam you try to hard on the count of GGG. Your argument is this " You can use Windows Internet Explorer by downloading Chrome ". Think about it mate, and try relax a bit when it comes to nolifing the forums.
Cheers again!

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_Emperor_ wrote:

Bringing up procurement and acquisition in this argument just makes it clear that it is pay to win.

Does GGG offer download of such tools and provides a tutorial on using them? If so, we can possibly come to some sort of a compromise.
If not, then where is the debate?

In a game where the devs have on multiple occasions said : " poe will never be p2w " and " trading is the core of the experience " we have the following situation.

" New users have to pay with $$$ to trade ".

Please destroy that argument with : " You can jump through seven hoops and pray to baby jesus that he gives you the power to use 3rd party tools to play a game " Go ahead, make that argument. Its toilet paper thin.

My friend will ofcourse buy the premium tabs if he continues to play the game, and i will encourage him to do so for the time being. But let us not ignore the paradigm shift and the direction of the game. It has changed, and the formula that brought many of use here is no longer valid.

Cheers,
btw lab sucks,
btw, goetzjam you try to hard on the count of GGG. Your argument is this " You can use Windows Internet Explorer by downloading Chrome ". Think about it mate, and try relax a bit when it comes to nolifing the forums.
Cheers again!

Does GGG offer a tutorial on how to use paid tabs, not really they demo the functionality but they don't explain how it really works unless you look here on the forums, the same place that list and show how to use acquisition\procurement.


The game isn't P2W, you can't pay GGG to get anything that you cant already get for free just as easily. Like really what functionality are you gaining by using the in game paid tabs vs just setting up acqusition once per league? I guess the notes?

It isn't jumping thru loops to setup trade, not only that the numbers that were released on the total number of items listed via premium tabs were high, people are using them, but some people aren't, do you see those people complaining on here, no you see fucking neck beards arguing about "well TECHNICALLY" no technically nothing. You can play this game, trade in this game without ever spending a dime and not be "behind" or at a handicap. Many people here have given their experiences stating you don't need to list items for 1c and literally horde everything. People like myself that have supported the game have multiple tabs because really there isn't anything else to buy if you dont literally want every mtx, but don't think for a min that just because i have this many tabs i have this massive listing of items, its likely 5-8 tabs of stuff for any given league, even less in this current one. The premium tabs don't offer me ANYTHING I didn't get by just using acquisition before.

Alt tabbing out of the game isn't a fucking "inconvenience" its required for tons of aspects of gameplay and planning and its 2016, it isn't that big of a deal to use external methods to assist you in gameplay, assuming it isn't a hack\ect.

Show your friend acquisition, like a good friend should have done, then you and he can recognize that he don't have to buy premium tabs. If you or he isn't willing to use the free alternatives its on you, not GGG and twisting the argument doesn't somehow make your point of view true.


Internet explorer is known to be a piece of shit, acquisition preforms well, trying to compare the two as the same just proves how little you really know about this stuff. Think about it mate and try to use logic and reason instead of your emotions and ignorance.

I find it funny that you skip over my post Goetzjam, but I actually somewhat agree with you about Emperor's post. POE putting up information about acquisition/procurement on their site is not only not necessary but ridiculous. The problem is more simple than that.

If you go into trade chat and post items, you'll quickly get flooded out, and you'll sour the experience, unless you're one of those crazy folk. Then you'll go to global chat where there is less volume, and get told to go back to trade chat. Looking for other in game options you're more likely to stumble upon premium stash tabs, and the party system. The party system can't link items, so is rather limited, and isn't really its intention anyway -- some folks complain about trade parties.

So the most likely thing players are first going to see are premium stash tabs, find it as the proper solution and become enamored by them. They won't find out about acquisition or procurement unless they google around and check the forums/reddit. And even if they do find out, they might think that since these are third party tools they might not be safe. Goetzjam has provided a way to access them without offering login information, so yes it is possible to use them reasonably safely. But that still requires a lot of time and investigation. The clear answer is right in front of them as premium stash tabs.

Although I disagree with Goetzjam about the tabs being pay to win, all tabs are pay to win, premiums more so because of the public trading options. Course, my definition of pay to win is a bit more open than Goetzjams. I also don't find a real problem with the sale of stash tabs, it's much better than selling gear, currency, or equipment.

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ghoulavenger wrote:

Goetzjam has provided a way to access them without offering login information, so yes it is possible to use them reasonably safely.

Executables are never entirely safe, and there's little chance you'll be able to do anything against Acquisition and Procurement authors should issues arise.

You can compile the source code yourself, no need to download the .exe directly.

Its not like you can't examine every line of code before it is ran on your system. If you are so concerned about security there is a good chance you are smart enough to know how to google things like poe trade.


Really anyone can google : how to trade, how to sell items, ect in poe, its not like its 2016 or something and we have access to one of the best search engines of all time....

So, lets sum it up.

It is okay to download programs that someone else made to play the game and keep it free.
And this somehow negates the p2w aspect, because some poor souls work their ass off somewhere for free to bring us this option.

Alright, whatever floats your boat i guess.

As for GGG putting up info on these tools being ridiculous, i agree.
But that would need to happen in order to justify paying for trade options.

Here is a free way, and its a hassle.
Here is a paid way, and its hassle free.

what we have now is.

You have to go find the things that are free, understand how to use them and trust them enough.
You can buy trade tabs.

or

GGG leeches the hard work of others so they can sell us something and say.. see its still free if you want to go that way.

Oh, and im just writing this, not to debate you. You have your mind set and it seems no amount of reasoning will shake it.

For you github downloads and GGG downloads amount to the same option and can be justified to buy anything. Fine.

Cheers

btw, lab sucks