Small vocal minority?

"

_Emperor_ wrote:

Not the way i would phrase it completely, but i do agree on every point too.

To reiterate: I (we) do not want to see lab removed.
I never played uber atziri, and i never will probably.
I would never ever suggest that we remove it from the game.
Why? Because it is a challenge that some people can take up, and others can enjoy the fruit of their labor for a price.

Lab is different, in the fact that if you want that build enabler point you really have to go there and get it.

Let lab stay, decouple it from ascendacy points. Nothing but that little thing needs to be changed.
Then we can talk about what are the good rewards for running it, and what should be the daily ladder reward. Maybe even specific uniques from a fixed loot table like atziri or something similar.

If they said, that from the next league, uber atziri locked away 8 notable passives for each starting class you would experience the shitstorm of a lifetime.

TLDR;
To hide ascendancy points behind content that the devs consider "divisive" is a mistake. Change the content or decouple the ascendancy points.
cheers

Is the lab divisive? Yes. Is the lab difficult? Hardly. The lab is easily accessed and literally any build that isn't complete crap can run the lab. Uber Atziri is not only gated by RNG but also a really high DPS threshold. Izaro and Uber Atziri are in completely different leagues. Grinding past 90 is stupidly annoying does that mean GGG should just give us those 10 skill points for free?

I've always said that there isn't enough "risk/reward" in PoE. I see the lab as a step in that direction, giving really nice rewards in form of ascendancy points. But the lab itself is boring as fudge. But that's my subjective opinion. I can live with the idea of other people enjoying the lab. The game isn't centered around me, as far as I know.

In my available play time, running the lab 3 times pr character isn't that bad. 30 minutes of "chore" is ok, when I get to enjoy the rewards for hours. I also see the 2 new points as a "min/max" deal, letting the min/maxers push their characters to the edge. But wee all know some people will cry about this, demanding that "everyone should be able to enjoy all content, despite play time and skill".

The lab is obviously here to stay. The ascendancy points are obviously going to be gated behind the lab in the future. And nobody is forcing anyone to run the lab more than minimum amount of times for each character.

As someone else touched before me: If GGG were to remove everything in the game that someone finds boring, nothing would be left.

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Megatyrant wrote:

"

_Emperor_ wrote:

Not the way i would phrase it completely, but i do agree on every point too.

To reiterate: I (we) do not want to see lab removed.
I never played uber atziri, and i never will probably.
I would never ever suggest that we remove it from the game.
Why? Because it is a challenge that some people can take up, and others can enjoy the fruit of their labor for a price.

Lab is different, in the fact that if you want that build enabler point you really have to go there and get it.

Let lab stay, decouple it from ascendacy points. Nothing but that little thing needs to be changed.
Then we can talk about what are the good rewards for running it, and what should be the daily ladder reward. Maybe even specific uniques from a fixed loot table like atziri or something similar.

If they said, that from the next league, uber atziri locked away 8 notable passives for each starting class you would experience the shitstorm of a lifetime.

TLDR;
To hide ascendancy points behind content that the devs consider "divisive" is a mistake. Change the content or decouple the ascendancy points.
cheers

Is the lab divisive? Yes. Is the lab difficult? Hardly. The lab is easily accessed and literally any build that isn't complete crap can run the lab. Uber Atziri is not only gated by RNG but also a really high DPS threshold. Izaro and Uber Atziri are in completely different leagues. Grinding past 90 is stupidly annoying does that mean GGG should just give us those 10 skill points for free?

Is the lab divisive? yes. That is the only part that addresses what i wrote. Being hard or simple has nothing do do with this. You must be thinking of some other guy in another topic. A lot of people dont like it the way it is. We are not here to debate if they are "wrong" or if they have "a right" to feel that way.
Sure many people dont go past lvl 85, but i dont see how that is connected to this.
Ascendancies are the new bread and butter of poe. You would have to jump some logical hoops to gimp yourself from the power and the build enabling diversity that comes with them.

TLDR; i dismiss your arguments because they dont pertain to what i am saying, and you use fallacious comparisons to illustrate a point that i am not arguing against.

Cheers

Chris didnt come off as arrogant, he even takes his time to talk to the playerbase and explain their vision. Youre just spoiled if you want character power for free.

so, keystones behind the lab and other outrageous, silly and totally unrelated suggestions?
Would actually be very cool, more reward for doing the lab and play a char that can survive, im totally for it.

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Asmosis wrote:

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innervation wrote:

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I_NO wrote:

Eh Lab is fine it makes your char RIDICULOUSLY OP and if you can't do it in merc well then that's just a play problem.

Would you say Lab is fine if every Skill Tree Keystone were gated behind the Lab too? Vaal Pact, Chaos Innoculation, RT, IR, US, all of them.

given you can complete it with ease in about 5-10 mins, sure why not. I'd be perfectly fine with gating the entire passive tree behind lab since you can clear normal start to finish without allocating a single passive point quite easily.

Why not? Because that's akin to buying Forza or Need for Speed and having the developers gate new cars and tracks behind playing a First Person Shooter. How long they make you play that FPS is irrelevant to the premise that it is illogical, non sensical, and better served making them unlock via...oh I don't know....racing cars?

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innervation wrote:

Why not? Because that's akin to buying Forza or Need for Speed and having the developers gate new cars and tracks behind playing a First Person Shooter. How long they make you play that FPS is irrelevant to the premise that it is illogical, non sensical, and better served making them unlock via...oh I don't know....racing cars?

Jeeze" Relax, dude. It's a game. You are still hackin' and slashin' mosters in the lab. There's even a couple of bosses.

Oh no, an ARPG that's trying out something new, making it different from any other ARPG out there. Straw poll God forbid.

"

innervation wrote:

Why not? Because that's akin to buying Forza or Need for Speed and having the developers gate new cars and tracks behind playing a First Person Shooter. How long they make you play that FPS is irrelevant to the premise that it is illogical, non sensical, and better served making them unlock via...oh I don't know....racing cars?

This is one of my main points when it comes to this topic.
Lab works like playing a soul reaver game or prince of persia.
Every other aspect works like an ARPG.
Now while i love soul reaver, and is probably one of my favorite series i would hate to play it from a top down perspective with all the poe mechanics of trade etc on top of it. Plus no save mechanic.

I am drawn to arpg to kill monsters and to grind for loot. When i cant kill monsters, i go back a little, adjust my build(early in my poe days) kill lesser enemies then attempt content again.
Kill-loot-grow in power-kill-loot-grow in power.
Lab is enter-find path-find lever-dodge traps-kill boss-repeat 3x- find keys for loot- roll a 300 sided dice for enchant-if you die you repeat it all.

Somewhere there lies the difference, and somehow people fail to spot it.

"

phrazz wrote:

Jeeze" Relax, dude. It's a game. You are still hackin' and slashin' mosters in the lab. There's even a couple of bosses.

Oh no, an ARPG that's trying out something new, making it different from any other ARPG out there. Straw poll God forbid.

Qft. Nothing to add here, this is on point.

Remove bandits skill points choice too, i don't want to kill them.

I don't know why i have to kill the bandits on the 3 difficulties to get my skill point or any other bonus. Pls, put the rewards in the conversation menu from Eramir. I kill monsters in this game, i don't want to kill bandits because they are humans!

By the way, why can't i have all my 123 skill points in twilight strand when the game starts? I promise i will use them only when i level up, big deal.

And another. Why can't i roam from normal to merciless? I don't want to finish the game to change difficulty.

And to finish: turns out i don't want to play your game, i want to play a game i idealize.

Sarcasms apart, that's how the game works, you know, ascendancy is just another content, people see it as extra power only, but it is content to be played(wow), lol.

Right, it was unacceptable when it lagged as hell in there when Perandus started. Getting disconnected changing screens in there made it frustrating. Now they fixed it, fine. Now i don't like the labyrinth. Because of the frustration i had once, but i run it for my ascendancy points because... it's THE GAME.

Other point: I don't like it, but i don't want it to change because it would be senseless getting extra power by doing nothing, the feeling of accomplishing something with my char would be nonexistent and boring. I just hope the lab from maps doesn't have the constant disconnect the normal lab had on the beginning of this league.

GGG: wants to keep the players playing(wow, such discovery by me).
Lab haters: want to play easier content to stop playing earlier / play less and go on with their lives.

Conclusion: What would kill the game is doing what lab haters want, not what they are actually doing, because lab haters and GGG goals are opposed to each other.

I remember a game called "Interstate 76". It added GUNS to a CAR game. W! T! Actual! F! I was so furious. Then came "Twisted Metal". It did the same, outrageous thing. NEW STUFF! Damn. And, then... Then this game called Grand Theft Auto came out, and it like... Like... Added a bunch of things into ONE GAME! Mixed DIFFERENT things to do. In ONE AND THE SAME game.

I was like "DAMN"!

Then I made a straw poll!