Small vocal minority?

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_Emperor_ wrote:

Why is it bad to voice your complaint if you dont like something different? I dont get this argument. Am i forced to like anything that is different? Or i am forced to not liking it while keeping quiet?

I go about the lab, as you do, get in there for the points with the least amount of trouble that i can muster.
Nobody that complains legitimately about the lab wants it removed, just because a large amount of people love it. But since its divisive, do something about the most divisive part of it. Give Ascendancy points in another manner, like maybe after first izaro.. and if you want other things go dive into the lab for the rest. Or any other manner that was mentioned earlier or in other posts.
Make it inclusive for everyone while keeping the difficulty and the significant repeatable rewards that the lab offers.

It's not bad at all, that's what forums are for: Share your views. But if everyone were to make a thread about everything they personally didn't like, the forums would be even worse than they are.

But the whole point of the ascendancy points is to ascend your character in the trials. I respect that they're trying to make something different; Not just: Beat these mobs, get a point. Beat that mob, get an other point. Sure, the lab may need a tweak or two, and the tweaks will come, but to change the whole "ascending" thing, just because some people don't like it or find it boring, is a bit of a stretch.

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innervation wrote:

Why not? Because that's akin to buying Forza or Need for Speed and having the developers gate new cars and tracks behind playing a First Person Shooter. How long they make you play that FPS is irrelevant to the premise that it is illogical, non sensical, and better served making them unlock via...oh I don't know....racing cars?

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innervation wrote:

What part of what I wrote was anything other than calm? Implying that people are 'raging' or 'crying' is generally something people do as misdirection when they're losing an argument on the substance of the issues.

In my post critiquing the Lab made on the day it released I addressed the lack of monster occurrence and pack size. If you're killing monsters in the Lab, you're doing it wrong. It's not worth your time in terms of experience or items. Pointing to the few skeletons that spawn (which exist only to refill your flask charges) is a pretty sad defense of the idea that playing the Lab is like playing the rest of the game.

You're right on Izaro - and that's the only nice thing I had to say about the Lab (again, covered on day 1).

I also covered the nuance between innovating, and genre bending for the sake of novelty. They crossed that line here in an un-fun way.

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Nizreb915 wrote:

POE doesn't fit my pedantic narrow definition of what an ARPG is. I demand GGG change it to be exactly like every ARPG in existence.

Or something else?
Who is demanding anything? We are pleading. There is a difference my arrogant friend.
While we are pleading, we try to present arguments and points of view as we see them. How about you engage us, maybe we work something out that is even better for both "camps".

Isnt it sad that there are "camps" of people now. Camps dont have to be 50-50 sized proportions for them to be camps. There is a significant amount of people with well reasoned arguments.
We might fail in changing anything, but it would be really stupid of us if we didnt try at least since we have a bone to pick, so to speak.

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phrazz wrote:

It's not bad at all, that's what forums are for: Share your views. But if everyone were to make a thread about everything they personally didn't like, the forums would be even worse than they are.

I would point out that it's because of feedback threads on the subject that we (yes, you too!) are gaining the benefits of the positive changes they've made (and will make) to the Lab.

"The Existing Labyrinth/Trials of Ascendancy
We've changed the existing Trials of Ascendancy so that your progress is shared between all characters in the league. If you complete a Trial, then you won't need to later complete that one on a subsequent character in that league.

We've solved a lot of problems with the layout of the Labyrinth and fixed a myriad of small issues with most rooms. We have also improved the rewards at the end of side content in the Labyrinth, to make those areas more enticing."

Also a fun fact while I was doing some digging for this post:

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Qarl wrote:

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Chameleon wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

Surprised lab time is that low, hopefully it goes up.

I'm surprised it is that high. I think most people just want to get their Ascension and then never set foot in the Lab again.

The Labyrinth content has been quite divisive. There are a lot of players that have loved the labyrinth and sent us very positive feedback. There are players who are very heavily engaged with it (and I suspect that will go up when ladders get added).

We also have players who have disliked it. I'm not sure of the exact breakdown, but it certainly is enough in each camp that it feels too close to call in either direction. I haven't seen many neutral opinions about it.

From the "Some Ascendancy Statistics" thread.

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_Emperor_ wrote:

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innervation wrote:

Why not? Because that's akin to buying Forza or Need for Speed and having the developers gate new cars and tracks behind playing a First Person Shooter. How long they make you play that FPS is irrelevant to the premise that it is illogical, non sensical, and better served making them unlock via...oh I don't know....racing cars?

This is one of my main points when it comes to this topic.
Lab works like playing a soul reaver game or prince of persia.
Every other aspect works like an ARPG.
Now while i love soul reaver, and is probably one of my favorite series i would hate to play it from a top down perspective with all the poe mechanics of trade etc on top of it. Plus no save mechanic.

I am drawn to arpg to kill monsters and to grind for loot. When i cant kill monsters, i go back a little, adjust my build(early in my poe days) kill lesser enemies then attempt content again.
Kill-loot-grow in power-kill-loot-grow in power.
Lab is enter-find path-find lever-dodge traps-kill boss-repeat 3x- find keys for loot- roll a 300 sided dice for enchant-if you die you repeat it all.

Somewhere there lies the difference, and somehow people fail to spot it.

You are still able to do that, as a matter of fact -- currently -- the endgame is centred entirely around grinding. The Lord's Labyrinth is non-mandatory content, anyone who is so opposed to navigating traps and mazes can refuse to participate, above all the implementation of the labyrinth in no way hinders your ability and desire to grind for loot. It has only added to the POE experience and has taken nothing away.

The game designers may have drawn inspiration from games belonging to other genres but you can hardly condemn them for doing so. Content creators are constantly combining inspiration drawn from different sources which have had exceptional results. Even ARPGs itself is arguably the combination of two different game genres. In the real world, content is seldom neatly confined to it's own defined genera -- I would even go so far as to argue that it is non-existent.

With all this taken into consideration, I think GGG has implemented the labyrinth in the least invasive manner possible. ARPG purists are free to ignore the labyrinth and continue performing map runs, while individuals who find end-game maps a bit monotonous are treated to new content more suited to them. There may perhaps be some balance issues, but I believe those kinks can be ironed out.