Congrats on destroying Voltaxic Rift

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ThatsSoGoodman wrote:

Is GGG going to stop making legacies? It'd be good to tell that to the player base if so.

Aw shit, I'll just repost it here

"

I can probably make a good guess at the method. Values on the item actually stay the same, but the game uses a percentage of it in every calculation where they are concerned, and adjusting the item tooltip to show 'statX/5 % leeched as life' should be no problem either.

So, to put consuming dark globally at 30% they would have to multiply the mod by 0,4, and then put the value back at 75, that would take care of legacy versions but drop Voltaxic at 40% and other items at lower values than intended, so they would have to increase the value by half which means Voltaxic would have to be bumped to 150 from 100 to show 60%.

As you can see, it's understandable they don't want to do it every time, it's an ugly workaround, it makes game calculations and database more complex and it's tricky or even impossible if you want to do it to one item only but many others share the same mod. You'd be inconveniencing everyone other than owners of the problematic item as they would have to reroll to the new value.

At least that's my take on the matter, so the short answer would be 'they don't know', sometimes you can't avoid making a legacy item. When they nerfed life and block chance on BoR it was unavoidable because a fuckload of items share those mods and they use them often so it would make their lives more complicated. But if it's a mod that few items have and they want to nerf it across the board, it's possible, and if it's a unique mod like voll's protector has, or CoE or Acutities, they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

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Ceri wrote:

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nephilim1984 wrote:

Here is a tip; learn to play different builds. That way you have lots to choose from.

I've played this game since May 2012. I think I've done more builds than most.

In case you didn't read what I said (I'm counting on it): I'm not "QQ'ing like a kiddo", I'm disappointed and upset that such a great item has now been made obsolete, despite the fact that it will not solve the problem at hand, it's just going to make people mad. Or sad, which is what I am.

Like someone already said: nothing much is going to change. Strap on Purity of Lightning, maybe Vaal Pact, and continue with business as usual. It's just a really lame attempt at fixing a problem that is not the Voltaxic Rift, but rather some abuses of it. I want them to fix the actual problem at hand, the mechanics that allow it to be overpowered. The bow itself, is perfectly fine and has been for almost 3 years.

Ok.. Well the one mechanic is double dipping, but it is one that makes sense and is required for trappers and ignite builds. And somewhat for bleed builds as well.

The other one is frost wall and pierce. And I'm pretty sure that will get gutted.

So if you have a better solution, let's hear it.

P.S. it wasn't you specifically I was referring to. Your post just attracted a lot of idiots.

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nephilim1984 wrote:

Ok.. Well the one mechanic is double dipping, but it is one that makes sense and is required for trappers and ignite builds. And somewhat for bleed builds as well.

Unfortunately, it doesn't, most of the time you explain it to a newcomer you get 'fuck no?!', and it took the community quite some time to sink it in, we're just used to it now.

What double dipping did was destroy non-double dipping, when was the last time you saw an ignite build take burning damage passives or melee poison/bleed come even close to its ranged counterpart? Actually, melee bleed only lately saw some use because you can just slap on Disfavour, use less duration as a double dipper and bleed the entire screen with bananas damage supplied by Earthquake. Those things aren't hard to adjust, ignite dropped to 20% because of DD, it can just go back to 40% again or to whichever value it needs to be good.

Fortunately, if I remember right, Rory said something in the vein of 'we aren't happy with the situation and are looking into it', so it may yet happen, if not in this patch then the next. It would be kinda fun if we got the double-dipping nerf that along with chaos nerf, that's what I meant with the patch notes mention. But probably not, they like to dilute big nerfs over a few patches.

Well if double dipping gets cut, then traps and mines need a boost. Just my opinion. Too many downsides of being a miner if you can't do insane damage.

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nephilim1984 wrote:

Well if double dipping gets cut, then traps and mines need a boost. Just my opinion. Too many downsides of being a miner if you can't do insane damage.

I don't think that would a be a problem, I mean, the whole universe of mine and traps stands on ten or so actives and a few supports. Now, if the only kind of traps/mines that were powerful were poison bladefall mines, that's also a problem, but at least they know now what kind of damage output it takes to get people to do some mining.

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nephilim1984 wrote:

Well the one mechanic is double dipping, but it is one that makes sense and is required for trappers and ignite builds. And somewhat for bleed builds as well.

The other one is frost wall and pierce. And I'm pretty sure that will get gutted.

Yeah, double dipping and the recent addition of a lot more damage multipliers - there is the main problem as I see it. It just scales out of proportion and I cannot fathom how the designers didn't see this coming, nor why they launch knee-jerk nerfs to various unique items when the problem has got nothing to do with them. It just smells "forced meta shift" to me, and that's really getting old.

Frost Wall & Pierce, to be honest I thought that was a broken mechanic when I first saw it. Broken as in "bugged, not intentional". It's stupidly overpowered, and yeah it definitely needs to go.

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raics wrote:

"

ThatsSoGoodman wrote:

Is GGG going to stop making legacies? It'd be good to tell that to the player base if so.

Aw shit, I'll just repost it here

"

I can probably make a good guess at the method. Values on the item actually stay the same, but the game uses a percentage of it in every calculation where they are concerned, and adjusting the item tooltip to show 'statX/5 % leeched as life' should be no problem either.

So, to put consuming dark globally at 30% they would have to multiply the mod by 0,4, and then put the value back at 75, that would take care of legacy versions but drop Voltaxic at 40% and other items at lower values than intended, so they would have to increase the value by half which means Voltaxic would have to be bumped to 150 from 100 to show 60%.

As you can see, it's understandable they don't want to do it every time, it's an ugly workaround, it makes game calculations and database more complex and it's tricky or even impossible if you want to do it to one item only but many others share the same mod. You'd be inconveniencing everyone other than owners of the problematic item as they would have to reroll to the new value.

At least that's my take on the matter, so the short answer would be 'they don't know', sometimes you can't avoid making a legacy item. When they nerfed life and block chance on BoR it was unavoidable because a fuckload of items share those mods and they use them often so it would make their lives more complicated. But if it's a mod that few items have and they want to nerf it across the board, it's possible, and if it's a unique mod like voll's protector has, or CoE or Acutities, they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

Well, now I know, but knowing wouldn't have helped me to predict this nerf. This nerf was a numerical, rather than a mechanical, nerf (unlike CoE or arguably Acuity). That they probably implemented it through changing the mechanics of the chaos conversion mod is a surprise to me, because it means they probably also nerfed Infernal Mantle, to which I didn't hear anyone calling for a nerf. Hell, last time they nerfed chaos conversion, they created legacy items.

I'm not that upset about it, but if I were, I'd feel pretty justified in being upset, because it is inconsistent behavior that has a negative economic impact on me.

pretty sure 40% reflected damage is still pretty much a big defense. If the Voltaxic Rift got its 3D Art come 2.3 i'm sure it wouldn't have been so salty to the players who own one?

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ThatsSoGoodman wrote:

Well, now I know, but knowing wouldn't have helped me to predict this nerf. This nerf was a numerical, rather than a mechanical, nerf (unlike CoE or arguably Acuity). That they probably implemented it through changing the mechanics of the chaos conversion mod is a surprise to me, because it means they probably also nerfed Infernal Mantle, to which I didn't hear anyone calling for a nerf. Hell, last time they nerfed chaos conversion, they created legacy items.

I'm not that upset about it, but if I were, I'd feel pretty justified in being upset, because it is inconsistent behavior that has a negative economic impact on me.

Right, they probably did the leech nerf this way too, but we didn't notice anything because they nerfed it all by the same amount.

The only question about this nerf that I got is have they fixed legacy Consuming or not. If they have, we will have legacy CD at the proper 30% (?) value, but all other items will be off, Voltaxic will be at 40% and mantle at 10% but we will be able to update them with divines and future drops will be fine.

If they haven't taken the opportunity, we will have legacy CDs at 45% but we won't have to update anything unless they nerfed some items less, for instance they might have dropped mantle to 20% instead of 15% and left Mortem alone, which means we will need to update those items or just buy new ones as it will probably be cheaper.

So, it's just a matter of how much they want to inconvenience the community.