Game needs Eternals back (and here's why) |Petition|

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trav_dawg wrote:

Anuhart,

The problem is that perfect 6t1 items already exist... Thus we are all forced to ultimately aim to get the same half-dozen items mirrored. BORING

define 'we' please, and if your definition includes me - change it because im not a part of your 'we', ok?

and as far as i know the mirrored trophy items are just that - trophy items - not needed fluff, vanity handbags for the geeks

you can get to 100 without them, you can beat ANY content without them. these items are NOT needed. you can aim to get them, but please, do not force this notion on others as it is far more probably the vast majority of players dgaf about these items and they are perfectly happy with their 300pdps harbingers or 300pdps 1h swords.

ethernals removal was a step in great direction that on one hand removed the 'hey, there is the perfect XYZ item, 30ex mirror fee' on day 10 of a league and on the other - forced people like me to have a go at crafting (gambling rather but still).

this entire thread is quite amusing example of 1st world problems

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I don't think that GGG was very fond of the massive bot/RMT fest that the eternal+mirror combination was encouraging. Also, the need to have an actual account-bound item flew right in the face of one of GGG's biggest company credos.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. While it's no revelation to me that design suffers because of a blanket policy GGG have: Having such an obvious 'uhhm, your policy is hurting you' item/combination in game waving a flag in front of their faces 24/7/365 must have been a bit rough. :D

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sidtherat wrote:

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trav_dawg wrote:

Anuhart,

The problem is that perfect 6t1 items already exist... Thus we are all forced to ultimately aim to get the same half-dozen items mirrored. BORING

define 'we' please, and if your definition includes me - change it because im not a part of your 'we', ok?

Ok you do not want the best items, fair enough.

They should have never existed.

I understand why they implemented them though, an experiment to see how exponential the item progression at the top end becomes.
(there was loads of forum QQ, provoking their implementation, or at least this "test")

Don't forget it was an era pre-masters.

They serve absolutely no purpose in the current game state that already facilitates an exponential item progression when compared to pre-masters.

The biggest "fail" ultimately is that there is no degeneration of the items in question (t1 mirror worthy from the eternal era) as such, they can't be erased when clearly the data gathered suggested to GGG that they should have not been allowed to be created with such ease.

Vaal orbs also completely miss this target, since no corruption in the game can possibly cover a 400exalt + cost.(low end)

I wish vaal orbs had a % chance to allow the player in question to "name" the item themselves. There is no price on vanity and mirror gear is specifically targeted at people obsessed with vanity. As such i would reckon even some high top-end crafts would be vaaled for the bragging rights to run around with an item named after yourself or some other goofy stuff.

I could see people flaunting about with a sword named "nerf killer" or something retarded.

They should have added more vaal corruptions like that, with only intrinsic emotional value instead of static numeric attributes.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Rupenus wrote:

if you wanna remove something, remove mirrors. increase the drop rates of eternals and exalts.

+1

Mirrors are stupid, they are the only orb in the game that has a guaranteed outcome (except for quality orbs, scouring and regret, which are much more common and serve a different purpose), and make a very small elite insanely rich. Which in turn creates balance problems.

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Char1983 wrote:

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Rupenus wrote:

if you wanna remove something, remove mirrors. increase the drop rates of eternals and exalts.

+1

Mirrors are stupid, they are the only orb in the game that has a guaranteed outcome (except for quality orbs, scouring and regret, which are much more common and serve a different purpose), and make a very small elite insanely rich. Which in turn creates balance problems.

Scrotie already explained why that's a no go.

GGG would have to remake a new logo man, be sensible.



Peace,

-Boem-

I'd be okay with adding eternals back, I would even advocate for improving their drop rate, however then remove fucking mirrors.

Eternals and mirrors at the same time = Everyone gets the same gear, there is no point in self-crafting unless you go all the way or do some minor inexpensive craft.

Yes unfortunately even without eternals, mirrors promote everyone having the same gear. Not that interesting to me, and it sounds like there are people who agree.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Mirrors are the incentive for crafting. No Mirrors, and the items linked in the OP wouldn't even exist. A rational person doesn't bother trying to make the best item on the server when you can trade for something nearly as good for a fraction of the price. Now, crafting a best item for mirror service, that's a different proposition.

Eternals and Mirrors weren't getting along. GGG had to let one go. GGG chose correctly. Or, more accurately, Eternals should have never been in the game to begin with.

Yes, it is very hard to catch up to these Standard-league relics of the Eternal Orb Era. GGG needs to add new affixes which the old Mirror-service items can't touch. Slight per creep is the only solution.

Also, I think the Orb of Scouring should have its functionality changed to "Remove one random mod from a Magic or Rare item," without changing its drop rate. This would allow some crafting bases to luckily be salvaged (similar to what an Eternal was guaranteed to do), but it wouldn't be nearly as extreme as when Eternals were in play. Scourings are also much more accessible to normal players. Chance+Scour would become more expensive, but I don't consider that a huge drawback.

This is not true actually. Mirrors are not "the" incentive for crafting. In fact the real indirect incentive is desire to have the best, without that incentive for people to pay the most there would not be anyone to sell mirrored items to. You think no one would spend huge amounts of currency to get the "best" item in the game because you can't mirror it?

I don't think you believe that yourself if you think about it. You know in every item based game people go to extreme extends and pay huge sums of irl $$ for whatever they desire. Every. Single. Game.

You are right though that those who craft it only so they can sell mirror services would stop doing it, but that is about it. That is also why i would advocate for increased eternal drop rates, and even also exalts now that i think about it, to bring the range of itemization closer to what is practically possible for a player to achieve.

The result would be a game with a greater variety of items used in endgame, and greater incentive for a person to craft any item even those who have already been crafted because since they cannot be mirrored there will always be demand for new ones. It is always more interesting to see someone who has "unique" items in the way that you see he may have near BiS stats and you start to drool, rather than you see he has loath bane like everyone else. It is only a question of adjusting drop rates of eternals/exalts and a few other orbs till the item levels are as desired, and it would result also in exalts being consumed rather than hauled and stacked = inflation.

To elaborate...

The economic structure is: good gear flows down, currency flows up, sellers must sell items for less than cost to craft them if they want it to sell, currency only consumed in earnest when it reaches the very top.

You take away Mirrors, and the "very top" part stops. This would mean currency is never consumed in earnest, because taking away Mirrors wouldn't change the fact that sellers must sell items for less than the cost to craft them. So at the very top it stops being about Mirrors and starts being a game of chicken where players have crafting materials but lose big if an upgrade goes on sale after/during the crafting of an upgrade. This massively drives diem the demand for currency overall and moves PoE closer to a "funny money" economy where the currency is currency just because the devs say it's currency, not because it's actually valuable. Which then means currency values become more dependent on how scarce they are and less on what they actually do.

But you don't care about that economy shit, you want to craft with your orbs. Okay then: removing Mirrors means PoE guess from a design where only the very top economic participants and suboptimal fools craft, to a design where only suboptimal fools craft. You still win nothing.

Say you bring back Eternals. Whether you stop Mirrors from dropping or not, either you possess a legacy Mirror and you're crafting something to use it on, or you're a suboptimal fool if you use an Eternal.

To be brutally clear: the reason crafting is suboptimal to trade is because sellers choose prices which make it suboptimal. As long as there is trade, trade will always be cheaper. You cannot fix this.