Your thoughts on the game speed meta?

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Nephalim wrote:

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Mivo wrote:

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Frankenberry wrote:

1-2 minute map clears is just to fast. Some builds have made the game a complete joke.

The majority of players do not clear maps in 1-2 minutes, though.

That's really the issue with nerfs. GGG tend to use a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel to make adjustments. Little good will it do when the solutions quadruple the clear speed for the top players, but everyone else will also clear much slower, even if they never got close to 1-2 minute clears.

If it's specific items coupled with specific skills, it's the combination that should be subject to adjustments.

1-2 mins is a gross exaggeration. It is profoundly hard to clear a map in under 2 minutes.

I saw 2 different streams just last night with 2 builds that cleared Gorge in 2 minutes (yes yes I know. Its Gorge). CoC + whirling blades and Bladefall with whirling blades. Whirl - whirl - whirl - kill everything in 1 second - whirl - whirl - whirl - kill everything - repeat.

The underlying point here is:

Mapping is an essential part of this game. You cannot run the harder content such as tier 14 / 15 maps or uber atziri all the time, so we should not be allowed to smash through maps this way.

Voltaxic is a small problem because it has no downsides compared to other bow builds (yes I tried both voltaxic and physical this league).

Whirling blades can give you unparalleled mobility. This has become a problem since it is clearly to much for a lot of builds.

Bino Dagger combined with casters is to powerful.

Bladefall... nerf it? yes please.

Vaal Spark... same.

List goes on.

I just want maps (again - the wast majority of this games content) to be somewhat challenging.

Well, I'm not opposed at all to a slower game pace then what we have. And I don't think many people are, it's just the way it was before was fucking awful and boring. If they made it as much fun to kill monsters at a slower pace who would care?

The slow downs should come mostly from the mechanics of the game. Adding a lot more bosses should help, but in general, there should be enemies that require more than 1 second engagements. Trash mobs can keep existing in between.

The biggest casualty in the acceleration of the game pace in recent days is the sharp decline in how interactive combat is. It's hard to care what monsters do if they die in two hits anyways. Bond of chaos? Dead before it gets to me. Volatiles? Dead before it enters melee range. Corrupting Blood? 2 hits = 2 stacks = No Problem Mate.

Monster damage has to be tuned so aggressively, the way it is now, because monsters can only realistically expect to get 0-1 hits off before the entire screen gets wiped. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to go back to Open Beta >10min map clears, but if we want combat to be fun and interactive, instead of a one shot fest, we're going to have to cut clear speed a little bit, and be happy with 3.5-4 minute gorges instead of 2 minute gorges.

It's Fucking Sad how this game turned out in 2015//2016, i hope acendacy ajustifies what we have right now!!!!

The game is basically turning into Median XL a Diablo 2 mod, which GGG did create and was a great distraction from the main game, but no way would i play it instead of diablo 2, and now POE that was once more like the old days of D2, but slowly turning into this Abombination!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdQ7ShO4U64

Sigh, I hope this Game wont turn into Shit, but i am starting to Doubt it :(
The game has not been the same since Cast on Crit, which i cant Believe is still in the game as it stands!

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Frankenberry wrote:

I saw 2 different streams just last night with 2 builds that cleared Gorge in 2 minutes (yes yes I know. Its Gorge). CoC + whirling blades and Bladefall with whirling blades. Whirl - whirl - whirl - kill everything in 1 second - whirl - whirl - whirl - kill everything - repeat.

The underlying point here is:

Mapping is an essential part of this game. You cannot run the harder content such as tier 14 / 15 maps or uber atziri all the time, so we should not be allowed to smash through maps this way.

Voltaxic is a small problem because it has no downsides compared to other bow builds (yes I tried both voltaxic and physical this league).



Whirling blades can give you unparalleled mobility. This has become a problem since it is clearly to much for a lot of builds.

Bino Dagger combined with casters is to powerful.

Bladefall... nerf it? yes please.

Vaal Spark... same.

List goes on.

I just want maps (again - the wast majority of this games content) to be somewhat challenging.

You shouldn't make blatantly misleading statements like that, people who are responding here might actually believe it is actually possible to clear a map in 1 minute to 1:45 minutes. Two streamers clearing gorge in over 2 minutes does not represent the meta.

That would be like saying people are leveling to 100 too fast because havoc reached 100 weeks ago.
The vast majority of players are still stuck in tornado shot DPS mongering phase and will never grow out of it and thank god. Leave's the game's core optimization to players who want to pursue it. I just hope their not the same ones whining about a clear speed meta when they realize their 100-300k dps builds cant clear gorge fast relative to some random on a stream.

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Nephalim wrote:

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Frankenberry wrote:

I saw 2 different streams just last night with 2 builds that cleared Gorge in 2 minutes (yes yes I know. Its Gorge). CoC + whirling blades and Bladefall with whirling blades. Whirl - whirl - whirl - kill everything in 1 second - whirl - whirl - whirl - kill everything - repeat.

The underlying point here is:

Mapping is an essential part of this game. You cannot run the harder content such as tier 14 / 15 maps or uber atziri all the time, so we should not be allowed to smash through maps this way.

Voltaxic is a small problem because it has no downsides compared to other bow builds (yes I tried both voltaxic and physical this league).



Whirling blades can give you unparalleled mobility. This has become a problem since it is clearly to much for a lot of builds.

Bino Dagger combined with casters is to powerful.

Bladefall... nerf it? yes please.

Vaal Spark... same.

List goes on.

I just want maps (again - the wast majority of this games content) to be somewhat challenging.

You shouldn't make blatantly misleading statements like that, people who are responding here might actually believe it is actually possible to clear a map in 1 minute to 1:45 minutes. Two streamers clearing gorge in over 2 minutes does not represent the meta.

That would be like saying people are leveling to 100 too fast because havoc reached 100 weeks ago.
The vast majority of players are still stuck in tornado shot DPS mongering phase and will never grow out of it and thank god. Leave's the game's core optimization to players who want to pursue it. I just hope their not the same ones whining about a clear speed meta when they realize their 100-300k dps builds cant clear gorge fast relative to some random on a stream.

Did you have to counter him knowing full well hes wrong <.< it just makes it funnier.

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Borgbilly wrote:

The biggest casualty in the acceleration of the game pace in recent days is the sharp decline in how interactive combat is. It's hard to care what monsters do if they die in two hits anyways. Bond of chaos? Dead before it gets to me. Volatiles? Dead before it enters melee range. Corrupting Blood? 2 hits = 2 stacks = No Problem Mate.

Monster damage has to be tuned so aggressively, the way it is now, because monsters can only realistically expect to get 0-1 hits off before the entire screen gets wiped. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to go back to Open Beta >10min map clears, but if we want combat to be fun and interactive, instead of a one shot fest, we're going to have to cut clear speed a little bit, and be happy with 3.5-4 minute gorges instead of 2 minute gorges.

Precisely.

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Nephalim wrote:

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Frankenberry wrote:

I saw 2 different streams just last night with 2 builds that cleared Gorge in 2 minutes (yes yes I know. Its Gorge). CoC + whirling blades and Bladefall with whirling blades. Whirl - whirl - whirl - kill everything in 1 second - whirl - whirl - whirl - kill everything - repeat.

The underlying point here is:

Mapping is an essential part of this game. You cannot run the harder content such as tier 14 / 15 maps or uber atziri all the time, so we should not be allowed to smash through maps this way.

Voltaxic is a small problem because it has no downsides compared to other bow builds (yes I tried both voltaxic and physical this league).



Whirling blades can give you unparalleled mobility. This has become a problem since it is clearly to much for a lot of builds.

Bino Dagger combined with casters is to powerful.

Bladefall... nerf it? yes please.

Vaal Spark... same.

List goes on.

I just want maps (again - the wast majority of this games content) to be somewhat challenging.

You shouldn't make blatantly misleading statements like that, people who are responding here might actually believe it is actually possible to clear a map in 1 minute to 1:45 minutes. Two streamers clearing gorge in over 2 minutes does not represent the meta.

That would be like saying people are leveling to 100 too fast because havoc reached 100 weeks ago.
The vast majority of players are still stuck in tornado shot DPS mongering phase and will never grow out of it and thank god. Leave's the game's core optimization to players who want to pursue it. I just hope their not the same ones whining about a clear speed meta when they realize their 100-300k dps builds cant clear gorge fast relative to some random on a stream.

Omg. It is not misleading. I tuned in to two random streams right when we were having this discussion and they both did 2 minute Gorge clears (Haha. Just checked right now. Mathil is streaming right now doing CoC Atziri runs. Same build. Capable of doing 2 minute Gorge clears - this is not a rare thing mate. This is the meta). Is this something I conclude from watching 3 streamers? No - it is everywhere I look. Tune into podcasts. They talk about Bino, bladefall, CoC aswell. Tune into streamers. They use those builds to absurd clear speed. Or just talking to friends. I did 35 (+1 zana) tier 8 maps the other day with an average clear speed of 5,27 minutes (including looting and trading). My friends said something like "It is pretty fast for that build, but if you just switching you could properly do it in half the time". Lastly look at these forums and the builds in Scion / witch. It is everywhere. If you cannot see this you are living in denial.

Also - If I remember correct are you that guy that leveled all classes to lvl 100 with Voltaxic bows ? Would you not agree there should be an opportunity cost when doing a Voltaxic build?

I mean Voltaxic = reflect immune, chaos dmg, but overall lower dmg and lower single target dps. Possible to go with Kaoms Heart for insane HP.
Harbinger = vulnerable to reflect, overall higher damage, higher single target dps, not chaos dmg, Kaoms / insane hp is viable but comes at a bigger cost.

Pro's and con's for each build. This is how the game should be balanced. When a build has 0 (noticeable) downsides it is per definition overpowered (and even worse uninteresting).

Would you not agree that this concept of pro's and con's should be the goal? And would you not agree that this is clearly not the case at the moment?

I only play strand, gorge and plateau because other map layouts give me headhaches.

I spend more time searching for mobs than actually killing them, so only red maps are worth the effort


Sorry for off topic 😂