Your thoughts on the game speed meta?

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Pi2rEpsilon wrote:

One has to wonder how large a percentage of the active player base Frankenberry is thinking of when he talks about the "current meta" for their play.

We are talking about a person here who casually talks about playing 35 Zana maps in a day. I don't have access to GGG' usage data, but while the number of players who play that much or care that much about top performance is probably larger than I would expect, I also suspect that this puts him in a very exclusive club compared to the general player base.

Probably thinks everyone has a

with GG god tier gear all together or some shit lol

Take out Void manipulation. Record same map 5L and 6L and I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. That 6L voltaxic is nice but cheap 5L does the same work. AOE DPS is out of control. OFC I abuse it like everyone else but game is worse because of it.

BTW I'm not picking on your skill I mean all of them - from ice nova where when I started the build in 1.2 it was 25K dps in 6L to 200K today to Blade fall to discharge to blast rain. It makes all on point skills useless to use and trivializes game.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I don't think it's reasonable to believe builds like that would necessarily have EHP that low. Maybe the budget versions.

You're free to provide or show me examples to the otherwise.

There is a limited amount of optimization you can do to vaal spark without headhunter movespeed rng and blatantly self gimp.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

If it reliably clears Gorge in under 2 minutes how is that not viable?

It's totally fine for a build to only be good at one particular niche, as long as that niche is worth doing.

Gorge is an example, but the clear speed for these builds are also insane on most other maps (I cannot think of any where they aren't). So it is not builds that does better in a small niche. It specific builds that over performances in almost every regard.

I gave an example earlier in this thread about Voltaxic. It does (almost) everything better than a Harbinger build. This should not be the case. Each playstyle should have its own strengths and weaknesses. To me this should be obvious.

CoC is another problematic style. A 5L with CoC seems strong in my book (disregarding how blatantly silly Bladefall is). The problem is the 6th Link is another huge dps upgrade, that makes CoC builds go from strong to flat out silly.

I like a fast paced game but I do not like builds that have virtually no downsides. Don't get me wrong. I think overall PoE is in a pretty good spot but there are some pretty obvious balance issues. I find it baffling that other players in this thread ignores this and pretends (more or less) everything is where it should be.

Oh well.

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lukeiy wrote:

Your thoughts on the game speed meta?

I'm not a fan of it.

Mostly because I feel like it reduces the APPARENT number of viabile builds.

When I join a Zana rotation or go mapping with other players as an Icestorm, Curse-on-hit minion build I usually end up following one of those Voltaxic archers or cast-on-crit cyclone characters or some sort of discharger feeling like a completely viable (and completely useless) leech.

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lukeiy wrote:

I think monster life, attack speed and movement speed need to go up, their damage needs to go down. Nobody dies from getting surrounded anymore, its always a random one-shot which aint my cup of tea.

This would just slow down everyone with the fast clear speed builds still being faster than the rest.

We could just solo but if you want to level up your character or your masters relatively quickly you kind of need to group up.

I'm more for a slower and more cautious style of playing, which is why I have played more in the HC temp leagues ever since Nemesis. I did also play in the SC versions, for the challenges or because I played with a friend, but HC feels better because I can't just rush things.
Now, trying out a new idea, that I do in either standard or in a SC temp league.

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Frankenberry wrote:

I gave an example earlier in this thread about Voltaxic. It does (almost) everything better than a Harbinger build. This should not be the case. Each playstyle should have its own strengths and weaknesses. To me this should be obvious.

Sooooo soooo wrong...

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StDrakeX wrote:

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Frankenberry wrote:

I gave an example earlier in this thread about Voltaxic. It does (almost) everything better than a Harbinger build. This should not be the case. Each playstyle should have its own strengths and weaknesses. To me this should be obvious.

Sooooo soooo wrong...

How so? AoE clear speed seems slower. Blast rain made Volaxic having just as good single target dps. Chaos is nice because in general mobs have lower resistance towards chaos. You do not need as many passives invested into damage nodes, which gives you the opportunity to have more hit points. Also reflect immunity is so huge.

I have played Voltaxic to lvl 93 this season and started over playing harbinger to 95. So far I cannot really find anything my Harbinger character does better (I do not have acuity - Acuity would be a really nice upgrade).

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Frankenberry wrote:

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StDrakeX wrote:

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Frankenberry wrote:

I gave an example earlier in this thread about Voltaxic. It does (almost) everything better than a Harbinger build. This should not be the case. Each playstyle should have its own strengths and weaknesses. To me this should be obvious.

Sooooo soooo wrong...

How so? AoE clear speed seems slower. Blast rain made Volaxic having just as good single target dps. Chaos is nice because in general mobs have lower resistance towards chaos. You do not need as many passives invested into damage nodes, which gives you the opportunity to have more hit points. Also reflect immunity is so huge.

I have played Voltaxic to lvl 93 this season and started over playing harbinger to 95. So far I cannot really find anything my Harbinger character does better (I do not have acuity - Acuity would be a really nice upgrade).

they do crit more often o.o since they and have 2 -3% more base crit. but that is about it.

in the past there was exactly two things keeping voltaxic down. no leech , no good damage nodes.

it has both now. hell it gained something like 150% gettable chaos damage, it gained double dip powers, it gained its own pseudo status effect in poison. it cuts through most resistances like a warm knife through butter.

and you can realistically get to 50% crit chance with good gear (60% with ass mark) sure its not the 80% of harbs but harbs cant get rings ammys and boots with 1- 60 lightning damage and 3 minor elemental nods worth of wed.


even my crappy 87 in full mf gear (no damage mods on anything but quiver) is hitting 30k gmp la, if i wanted i could boost that to over 45k with some wed and multi on gear.

Basically build strength should be optimized by looking at elite players.
Atm voltaxic is performing too good. On non-bow builds I can't judge.

After this balance is done, then it should be looked down how it works for general publics - those players which hardly reach lvl 80.

The crit and non-crit disparity is still very large. However I think that this problem should be solved by adding another mod on the item which is only good for non-crit characters. Since the problem in reality is that crit characters can stack more useful mods than non-crit characters on their items.

Some ideas about how to solve voltaxic problem:
1) Make duelist leech cluster leech only from non-chaos attack dmg
2) Make voltaxic to convert only 50% of lighting dmg to chaos dmg

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Filousov wrote:

Basically build strength should be optimized by looking at elite players.
Atm voltaxic is performing too good. On non-bow builds I can't judge.

After this balance is done, then it should be looked down how it works for general publics - those players which hardly reach lvl 80.

The crit and non-crit disparity is still very large. However I think that this problem should be solved by adding another mod on the item which is only good for non-crit characters. Since the problem in reality is that crit characters can stack more useful mods than non-crit characters on their items.

Some ideas about how to solve voltaxic problem:
1) Make duelist leech cluster leech only from non-chaos attack dmg
2) Make voltaxic to convert only 50% of lighting dmg to chaos dmg

1) possible.
2) makes the unique pointless. the whole point behind voltaxic was that it bypassed reflect