I realized this game is even worse than Diablo 3

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Ruefl2x wrote:

If you want you can play PoE dumbed down. Just follow a guide, play in standard and have loads of time you can spend in this game. Eventually you get all your items without thinking about any mechanics - just following the guide. The only "hard" things in PoE are time and RNG.

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Ruefl2x wrote:

In PoE? no tutorial, no trading system (ingame), a homepage that would have been "cool" in the last century (lol @ the search function) and also is outdated for years in some parts. And if you want to advance in this game you don't need "knowledge" (well, maybe to some extend) you NEED to have no job or no life aside it to overcome the RNG.

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Ruefl2x wrote:

So again ... the only thing you need in this game is TIME, loads of it. And this is nothing that would make it "hard".

Many people who play this game have a fulltime job and an active social life. Advancing in this game does require knowledge. Would be foolish to deny that. Especially if you have knowledge that not everyone is aware of. You at the very least need to know how certain items synergize with passive skill points in the tree. That mentality of yours will not save you in HC.

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Ruefl2x wrote:

What i also read very often lately: "Game in the "old times" were much harder and everything is dumbed down now".
Can some1 please name me such games? i always wondered because i invested MUCH less time in single games back then and always was able to finish them without any help from the net or other sources.

Just going to mention a few pc-games on the top of my head:

Jagged Alliance 2
Commandos
Old X-com
Baldur's Gate 2 with Tactics and Ascension mod.
Operation Flashpoint
F.E.A.R. on masochistic difficulty (unmatched A.I. till this day)
Wizardry IV: The Return of Werdna
The Void (makers of Pathologic)
....

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mark1030 wrote:

"

Can some1 please name me such games? i always wondered because i invested MUCH less time in single games back then and always was able to finish them without any help from the net or other sources.

How about Diablo 2? The game this one was inspired by. If you got through 3 difficulties on your first character without reading anything, you're lying. There were no respecs. Once you screwed up, it was either start over or play a gimped character.

I played a Summon Necro so yeah I actually did.


Diablo 2 is based on old game design philosophies. New game design dictates that you allow players to complete your game without resorting to outside game knowledge. That's basic game design 101 now adays. And no, it's not spoon feeding, because designing your game to be intuitive doesn't necessarily mean you are spoon feeding people.

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themrpid10 wrote:

I am always kind of amused by how many people cannot admit the game sucks.

Maybe, just maybe, we like the game as it is? I know, mind blown.

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allbusiness wrote:

"

mark1030 wrote:

"

Can some1 please name me such games? i always wondered because i invested MUCH less time in single games back then and always was able to finish them without any help from the net or other sources.

How about Diablo 2? The game this one was inspired by. If you got through 3 difficulties on your first character without reading anything, you're lying. There were no respecs. Once you screwed up, it was either start over or play a gimped character.

I played a Summon Necro so yeah I actually did.


Diablo 2 is based on old game design philosophies. New game design dictates that you allow players to complete your game without resorting to outside game knowledge. That's basic game design 101 now adays. And no, it's not spoon feeding, because designing your game to be intuitive doesn't necessarily mean you are spoon feeding people.

Poe is based on those same design philosophies and yes it really is spoonfeeding if you lay out your lay out your game in such a way people don't want to go for more information.

The amount of stuff that would be needed in game in order to allow for people to complete merciless difficult would be extremely large and more importantly it changes almost every major patch, you can't just give someone a simple level up and complete the game build that will be exact the same in 1 year or two. It would simply take too much time to do so.

This game isn't meant to cater to casuals, if you think its too difficult to level to merciless and aren't willing to do anything to improve or learn yourself then you won't get far in this game.


I mean honestly basic game design 101, you mean in an era where we have yearly releases of battlefield, call of duty, where the most profitable games on the mobile market store are F2P games like candy crush, I mean honestly compared to the rest of the games that are popular today PoE is good for not adjusting to this new design philosophy if you ask me.

To this day you still cant get to hell baal without looking up some information about builds and stuff in D2.

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Reinhart wrote:

Many people who play this game have a fulltime job and an active social life. Advancing in this game does require knowledge. Would be foolish to deny that. Especially if you have knowledge that not everyone is aware of. You at the very least need to know how certain items synergize with passive skill points in the tree. That mentality of yours will not save you in HC.

- Ofc people with a job/family play this game. But i doubt many of them play high tier maps.
- Every game needs some kind of knowledge. but is it required to know how the entropy system works, how armour is calculated, how block/dodge works? do you need to know the difference between increased/more dmg? no, you just follow the guide.
Ofc you need to know what phys/ele reflect is or the volatile mod on mobs.

I DO agree that knowledge is required if you do races. But (at least for me) this is something completely different.

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Reinhart wrote:

Just going to mention a few pc-games on the top of my head:

Jagged Alliance 2
Commandos
Old X-com
Baldur's Gate 2 with Tactics and Ascension mod.
Operation Flashpoint
F.E.A.R. on masochistic difficulty (unmatched A.I. till this day)
Wizardry IV: The Return of Werdna
The Void (makers of Pathologic)
....

Ok, i still play the old x-com from time to time (and played it faaaar too much back then). I love this game and i still think this was one of the best games ever made. If you decided to not use savegames it could be quite harsh.
Commandos was quite OK too, again if you decided to not use savegames this could be considered hard.
I also loved FEAR. But i played it for the atmosphere and not the "if an enemy tickels you you are dead".
can't tell much on the other games.

but you know ... in those games you could set the difficulty to a level which was appropriate for your play style. those werent meant to be played at the highest difficulty by everyone.

And for D2 ... it wasn't particulary hard to kill diablo even with an unoptimised build. Believe me or not, the first time i looked up a build for D2 was when D3 was announced and i wanted to play through D2 again. But i also guess i was like the only person not running a bot of any kind ever in D2.

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goetzjam wrote:

Poe is based on those same design philosophies and yes it really is spoonfeeding if you lay out your lay out your game in such a way people don't want to go for more information.

The amount of stuff that would be needed in game in order to allow for people to complete merciless difficult would be extremely large and more importantly it changes almost every major patch, you can't just give someone a simple level up and complete the game build that will be exact the same in 1 year or two. It would simply take too much time to do so.

This game isn't meant to cater to casuals, if you think its too difficult to level to merciless and aren't willing to do anything to improve or learn yourself then you won't get far in this game.


I mean honestly basic game design 101, you mean in an era where we have yearly releases of battlefield, call of duty, where the most profitable games on the mobile market store are F2P games like candy crush, I mean honestly compared to the rest of the games that are popular today PoE is good for not adjusting to this new design philosophy if you ask me.

To this day you still cant get to hell baal without looking up some information about builds and stuff in D2.

There are plenty of intuitive based games that have a high degree of difficulty today that don't spoon feed you information. The Souls Series, alot of the new dungeon crawlers like Legend of Grimrock, Bloodborne, the Fire Emblem series, and plenty of other games. The fact that you absolutely have to have outside meta knowledge to progress at a reasonable rate is in fact, considered absolutely ridiculous game design.

And please, don't be one of those shitty hipster gamers that never actually played an old game, because I know for a fact you aren't. Plenty of old games had massive problems with them but people just like to look at them with rose tinted glasses (Fallout 2 being one of the primary ones, but there are plenty others).

And please, don't even try and say PoE is 'intuitive'. There is nothing intuitive about the game at all. There's a reason why League of Legends is a far more popular game than DotA 2, despite the fact that DotA 2 has a ton of more depth in it.

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Xavderion wrote:

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themrpid10 wrote:

I am always kind of amused by how many people cannot admit the game sucks.

Maybe, just maybe, we like the game as it is? I know, mind blown.

So what? You like a broken game - and eventually it will rot and die because of lack of new players.

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themrpid10 wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

"

themrpid10 wrote:

I am always kind of amused by how many people cannot admit the game sucks.

Maybe, just maybe, we like the game as it is? I know, mind blown.

So what? You like a broken game - and eventually it will rot and die because of lack of new players.

Really? When? It's easy to say that because everything dies. We're all going to rot and die someday. People have been saying this game is dying for 2+ years. Yet it survives. Doesn't that say something about what the majority of supporters think is a good game?

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allbusiness wrote:

Path of Exile still suffers from early CRPG design where if you made the wrong choices, you simply just hit a wall and can't progress (or it is insufferably hard to progress if you don't have outside game knowledge). Most players will not be bothered to look up a guide on how to beat something, and they shouldn't have to

youre saying as it if its a bad thing

there is nothing, I repeat absolutely NOTHING wrong with finding out and learning things through trial and error. thats how you do it in life. and while in life you dont have to jump a cliff to find out its a bad idea, in games thats perfectly feasible- but instead companies try to dumb-down games and make them as idiot-proof as possible

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themrpid10 wrote:

The DEVELOPERS are fucking lazy. It is the job of the game to teach these things

no it is not. stop. some of the best games of all time did not teach jack shit and let the players figure shit out by themselves.

games provide a medium to have fun in, and it's the developers choice how to present it. there's nothing wrong into throwing you in the water and let you sink or swim. this is how most people learn how to swim in countries where a swim instructor is unheard of.

if I developed games instead of enterprise software, Id have zero fucking tutorials. tutorials and handholding make me puke.