I realized this game is even worse than Diablo 3

One of the main problems imo are the big difficulty spikes in act 3x and (especially) act 4. A newbie usually has put together a build that is more or less functional until Piety, only to find himself utterly crushed by Dom and/or Malachai. And let's don't forget that PoE has a huge "knowledge burden" while at the same time it lacks any in-game reference to how the skills work and interact (except for the 1-liner in skill gems) or even to the poe wiki.

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KorgothBG wrote:

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Broodalize wrote:

And the big problem with every diablo-style arpg...

7. No guaranteed progression on gear and no access to concrete goal structures; you can't work toward what you want in a linear fashion.

I believe that you would find more joy in playing MMORPGs instead of hack'n'slash aRPGs ( and there is nothing wrong with that )

I don't play any games with auto-targeting.

Most MMORPGS require zero skill.

What you just said makes no sense. MMORPGs and ARPGs are not descriptions of gear progression systems. This game is actually both a MMORPG and a hack n slash.

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Broodalize wrote:

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KorgothBG wrote:

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Broodalize wrote:

And the big problem with every diablo-style arpg...

7. No guaranteed progression on gear and no access to concrete goal structures; you can't work toward what you want in a linear fashion.

I believe that you would find more joy in playing MMORPGs instead of hack'n'slash aRPGs ( and there is nothing wrong with that )

I don't play any games with auto-targeting.

Most MMORPGS require zero skill.

What you just said makes no sense. MMORPGs and ARPGs are not descriptions of gear progression systems. This game is actually both a MMORPG and a hack n slash.

No a game like Devilian is both an mmorpg and hack n slash.

This games progression and design has nothing to due with mmorpgs, no does its gearing. Its an Online ARPG but its not massive and its not multipler in the since that raids or partying is required or suggested.

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themrpid10 wrote:

This game requires trade unless you've spent so many hours to know every little quirk and loot mechanic of a build. It is impossible to go from 1-70ish and beat all 3 difficulties with self found gear in less than 2 years. The quality of drops is never good enough in a zone to progress to higher ones, especially relying on currency to alter and craft gear enough to matter (5L/6L, 3+ good stats on a rare). People like to badmouth the auction system Diablo 3 had but without it you couldn't progress in that game either. This game mandates trading and groups even more than Diablo 3 did because otherwise you will always hit a gear wall around level 40 and level 60 that cannot be overcome with self found drops.

What you say is incorrect because:
1. Playing/trading in groups is in no way necessary, I never did and I have a well running shop and many high level characters. Playing in groups was actually nerved so badly that only friends still do it for social reasons.
2. Everybody plays self found at the beginning of any league and that is actually the fun thing about new leagues.
3. Knowing every quirk and actively looking to deepen your understanding is staple of any good/deep game. If you don't want challenge and interaction just watch the telly.
4. Crafting is something you should only do with high level characters and gear (65+) it is a waste to do in early and mid game.
5. Trading is NOT that hard, poe.xyz is very powerful and fast if you learn how to use it. If you can't get around xyz the auction house won't bring you anything new because there you'll also have to know very well what to look for at what price.
6. If you can't go from 1 to 70 in two years self found than this REALLY isn't your game, it's not the game, I'm sorry but it's you.
7. If there is a gear wall than it's definitely not at Lv40, around 65-70 maybe. Again, its really not the game you should be looking at but your own way of playing and skill. Just pick any Liftingnerdbro beginner build (youtube or here) just to name one of many options, and prepare to be amazed at how quickly you'll be 70 yourself and what a difference a reasonably good build makes.

1 to 70 is no problem to do within a month, my latest char uses a VERY suboptimal skill (spectral throw) and I only play for 4-8 hours a week and it's now lv63 in three weeks. And again this is a very suboptimal build i am just playing because I'm a sucker for old school skills/builds.

Nobody is stopping you to play Facepalmio3, if bite size chunks of pre-regurgitated mainstream shizz is more your thing, they will love to see you coming.

Diablo3 = McDonalds
POE = Michelin star restaurant with an endless menu

Blaming one game for not being like another is like blaming apples for not tasting like oranges.

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KorgothBG wrote:

Just because you don't understand what's the connection between the "guaranteed linear gear progression" that you desire and a MMORPG doesn't mean that there isn't one. It just means that you have no idea what the said progression looks like when implemented ( i.e. in many if not most MMORPG in the past 10 years ).

It's not that I don't understand the correlation, it's that it doesn't have to be one or the other. This game obvious sought to have a more consistent gear progression with the plethora of different gear modifier consumables, but the reality is that they are very rare and that kind of defeats the purpose.

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The randomness of gear drops is not "the big problem with every diablo-style arpg" it is a signature trait of the genre. Such claims are just as ridiculous as me saying that the "big problem" of the First Person Shooters is that you must shoot and kill people over and over again.

No, its not -- because that's gameplay and we're talking about itemization. There are many first-person shooters with many different itemization mechanics.

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Let me make this clear ... there is nothing wrong with the fact that you don't like how "every diablo-style arpg" works ( different people like different things ), but since it is a signature trait of the genre ( the one that is actually the reason why many of us like that kind of games ) ... that doesn't mean that it is a problem it just means that YOU ( yup .. you personally ) like different gearing approach ( which is find in different sub-genre of RPG games ) .

And what you don't understand is that it doesn't have to be one or the other, and that this game obviously wanted to have more modifiable gearing options to help you get upgrades, but the resources to do so are very hard to come by and worth a lot more than the value of the gear that you would be upgrading in order to advance in the game..

I like the random drop style, don't get it twisted. Options are nice when your backed into a corner, though. Doesn't really matter if you like a more linear gear progression style, anyways; if you don't like it, don't use it.

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As for MMORPGs ... i've played enough of them even though i don't actually like MMORPGs myself ( because of the "guaranteed linear gear progression" and because it is required to play in a party ) but the comment "Most MMORPGS require zero skill." is extremely condescending and most of all untrue. I understand that you don't play MMORPGs but if that's the case .. then don't comment on things that you clearly don't have knowledge about.

Most MMORPG don't have skill shots and generally come down to pressing a button with an auto-aim mechanic and watching your character run through an automated sequence.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.