Afraid of the new Ascendancy Classes

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Metalica24 wrote:

This is utter crap and i don't like the new "system". Such system does not have place in poe.

- No more class diversity.

The same build minus four or five nodes, from two different start points, isn't really 'class diversity'. Why do you think everyone plays everything on Scion?

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Metalica24 wrote:

- No more freedom to play what you like, what you want.

So...what's stopping me, exactly? I've played without Asc. classes for a goodly period now. If I want to try something offbeat that doesn't fit well in an Asc. class, I'll...you know what? No. You have to be actively trying to come up with a build concept that can't make use of something like Juggernaut or Champion, and those concepts are not so much "I wonder how this will work" as "I'm actively seeking to spite the system just to prove a point."

Specs like Deadeye open up entirely new build options with things like inherent chaining or extra projectiles. Slayer on the Duelist adds huge benefits for leeching or allows a free Melee Splash, thus rendering single-target melee attacks enormously more viable.

Necromancer doesn't even need to minions! Run Mistress of Sacrifice, Spirit Eater, and Beacon of Corruption, then build around super-potent self-buffing Offerings (that also deny corpses to things like Corpse Exploders, Necromancer-type enemies, or other things that make you hate bodies) and some of the new Chaos damage skills. Rig up a Skeletotem to throw into packs of mobs, watch Skeletons die in a hurry, and then watch clouds of Chaos DoT rip up enemies without actually having to do anything more than spend a three-link on the totem!

This is Path of Freaking Exile! How is it players aren't jumping up and down to be the first ones to twist the new passives around and do cool stuff with them?!

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Metalica24 wrote:

- No more maraduer with dual wands or witch with heavy armor.

'Maraduer' with dual wands goes Juggernaut, uses the massive defense boosters in the Juggernaut line to forego the armor/life/toughness nodes in the standard tree he'd otherwise needs to grab, and thus has a lot more points available to head north and find extra damage. 'Witch with heavy armor'...is not even worth picking on. If you honestly think this is a problem, you need help, man.

You just need help.

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Vipermagi wrote:

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maxor wrote:

An example of this would be the new ranger frenzy charges passives, if you are using a ranger you will have to include frenzy charges in your build or be suboptimal.

Or you don't grab these particular Frenzy Charge passives and be fine anyways because you get other stupid-powerful stuff such as +1 Chain? :/ Just because they exist, doesn't mean you have to grab them. You can only spend six Passives, in only one Ascendancy Class; you can't get everything.

This is exactly what im saying if you want to use a frenzy based bow build you would be gimping yourself to go anything other than ranger.In the rest of my post i pointed out that a shadow couldn't make as good a frenzy based bow build as a ranger could which is not the case now.

And ill point out again for clarity i like these changes as it will allow me to strengthen my characters thematically and logically, but these changes do not increase build diversity they do almost the exact opposite by making certain builds work best on certain classes.

edit
Also vipermagi(im assuming you have some inside knowledge) could you maybe post some extra details like how we will get the passives. only if you are allowed to ofc

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maxor wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

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maxor wrote:

An example of this would be the new ranger frenzy charges passives, if you are using a ranger you will have to include frenzy charges in your build or be suboptimal.

Or you don't grab these particular Frenzy Charge passives and be fine anyways because you get other stupid-powerful stuff such as +1 Chain? :/ Just because they exist, doesn't mean you have to grab them. You can only spend six Passives, in only one Ascendancy Class; you can't get everything.

This is exactly what im saying if you want to use a frenzy based bow build you would be gimping yourself to go anything other than ranger.In the rest of my post i pointed out that a shadow couldn't make as good a frenzy based bow build as a ranger could which is not the case now.

And ill point out again for clarity i like these changes as it will allow me to strengthen my characters thematically and logically, but these changes do not increase build diversity they do almost the exact opposite by making certain builds work best on certain classes.

Well defined classes with more specialization options bring much more than they take away. A frenzy based duelist has some pretty neat options as well and while it will be different than a ranger, you can be creative and make something that the ranger cannot do.

Before:"Build" has nothing to do with "Character". Now it does. Get over it. So what if you have to play a certain character to use certain nodes in the specialization of your choice? That doesn't diminish your choices other than the appearance of your character.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Before:"Build" has nothing to do with "Character". Now it does. Get over it. So what if you have to play a certain character to use certain nodes in the specialization of your choice? That doesn't diminish your choices other than the appearance of your character.

What it does take away is starting positions and travel on the tree if you choose a certain subclass but I don't get what everyone is complaining about. This content and customization and build diversity is going to revive this game. I plan on buying my first supporter pack next league and I was on the verge of quitting. GGG always amazes me with this ongoing project.

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maxor wrote:

these changes do not increase build diversity they do almost the exact opposite by making certain builds work best on certain classes.

Like I said on the previous page, that's not build diversity, that's visual diversity and a large portion of playerbase did complain about the lack of 'class' distinction, so there you go - class distinction ahoy.

In the worst case scenario, who cares even if all summoners do end up being Witches, you can barely see what's under all the bling anyway. Also, for every summoner Scion less we could get an extra Duelist that could have been Mara, it might even out, who knows.

What's bugging me is actually Scion, we'll see if extra jewel slots will be enough to offset weak starting nodes AND only one subclass, I guess it depends on how good the subclass is.

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xxSerpentlordxx wrote:

What it does take away is starting positions and travel on the tree if you choose a certain subclass but I don't get what everyone is complaining about. This content and customization and build diversity is going to revive this game. I plan on buying my first supporter pack next league and I was on the verge of quitting. GGG always amazes me with this ongoing project.

People are afraid of change but I see this change as a good thing. It will allow people to be more creative with their builds and provides new choices to differentiate your character from other characters.

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Vipermagi wrote:

lol, no, I don't get any inside information. Aside from knowing a lot about mechanics I'm entirely a nobody. :p However, GGG has revealed how this stuff works here and there: the Labyrinth can be accessed on each of the three difficulties. The first completion on each difficulty grants two Ascendancy Passive points, for a total of six.

As for the hypothetical Frenzy Charge-based archer: the Shadow can still be competetive despite having weaker Frenzy Charges. You trade in 1 Charge and Frenzy Charge power for more Crits, or Bleed/Poison/Maim stacking. The Ranger has stronger Frenzy Charges, yes, but that is only one part of a build.

This is very well said.
Btw I really like theese asc class things.
I like to keep my builds on my chars even after updates, but in worst case I will just have to swap gear between my already existing chars.

It is not like I would ever go with a class that is not optimal for my build path/ skill gem acces from vendor so not much difference.

Also I hope for an ele dmg related thing as for the last shadow asc class.

i am quite shocked by all this...

ok first lemme say that this will not reduce build diversity at all, it just adds more options.
the thing that bothers me is that the skill tree beeing open to all classes is what drew me to this game.
i really don't understand why some people feel that the classes didn't have an identity and that needed to be addressed... the characters identity comes from their looks and lines of dialogue superficially (and i like some more than others) as well as the build you come up with for it.

picking my class as a superficial choice, then coming up with my own build and having access to all the nodes and deciding its identity for myself is what has kept me going for a long time and spending alot of time and money on the game.

now suddenly certain builds are going to be limited to certain classes and i really dont see any benefit from that.

the classes don't need their 'own inherent identity' in that way
your character should provide that in the way you build it
all this does is force a specific look on certain builds and forcing you to restart some of your builds on a different character.

i am not worried about certain things beeing more effective than others, this will happen, theres gonna be nerfs and buffs and all of that is fine.
build diversity is not going down, it is enhanced, we get new tools to play with and thats cool.
but we loose some freedom on a superficial level and to me it feels like this is going against the original spirit of this game i have grown so fond of.
i loved to make a new character and have an almost infinite world of possibilities and now it feels like it is going to be funneled down into several pathways per class.

truly open RPG systems are a rarity but to me they always felt like the only kind of RPG system that really makes sense.

there would be a simple solution for this tho.. divorce the looks from the classes and one of my main issues with this disappears. it would also provide the benefit of going with preferred looks and having a different starting location on the passive tree.
this would be a decent microtransaction too.
make one for each class that forces character model and voice...
you could even make additional character/voice packs like that without having to touch the skill tree.

alternatively you could just make all subclasses unlockable by reaching another classes starting area.

or do both!

most traditional RPG system seperate race and class to give you control over looks as an extra layer of customisation, why not just go for a similar approach here?

the only problem with that would be that GGG made specific portraits for the new classes to replace your base class.
but those could be made freely available, unlockable or turned into microtransactions.