Afraid of the new Ascendancy Classes

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Obviously summoners have fair concerns

Yet even for summoners, there are other options.

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Hodari wrote:

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Obviously summoners have fair concerns

Yet even for summoners, there are other options.

True, I can envision some sort of tanky summoner Marauder using Dominating Blow for instance. Or aurabot Templar with summons etc.

But from a purely statistical standpoint the ascendancy trees will make some niche builds comparatively worse than before. From a numbers perspective there will be less optimal builds.

Whether or not that's a bad thing is another matter. We can always make the argument that the current niche builds made comparatively worse by the change aren't worth too much anyway.

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sidorasek wrote:

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maxor wrote:

If you want to play a frenzy charge crit bow skill user for example (which is a popular build for lots of classes) you will have to play it on a ranger or you will be doing it wrong.

Umm what? First of all there are tons of way to build frenzy crit bow builds now.

You can play it as any of the three duelist specs which can give you these stats:

Slayer:
40% increased damage vs rares and uniques (Single target damage? Why thank you.)
Onslaught on kill
Increased damage and atk speed on leech or Stun
All the intermediary two handed nodes from the subclass (Yes they work with bows.)

Gladiator:
Max block/Spell Block + Increased damage etc

Champion:
Permanent Fortify
An extra aura with 30% damage and 5% movement speed

You can play it as shadow:
Capped Crit with Lioneye's Glare (WUT)


Easy Power Charges
etc

You're literally just claiming something is broken without thinking of how you can improve old builds. You see frenzy charge effects and cling onto that as the only viable thing out there. Like seriously think before you speak.

Ok fine if you going to deliberately misinterpret what im saying thats up to you.Im not going to say the same thing over and over.

Im happy that after the expac there will be a clear and superior way to build my favourite build.

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Hodari wrote:

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Obviously summoners have fair concerns

Yet even for summoners, there are other options.

Not "good" options though unless some of the other ascendancy classes provide summoner benefits which I am not holding my breath on.

Unless they change the core minion spells then the 145% spectre damage and 120% health for spectres is likely going to trump everything else and summoners will be pigeon-holed into the necromancer due to the substantial increase to spectres.

While the Necromancer tree is nice, it doesn't change the dynamic of playing a summoner, most summoners rely on the spectre for damage and most of the nodes are just some boosts that are similar to the normal tree nodes, Beacon of Corruption looks like it will have the same problems of Minion Instability and I can't see it being popular (or taken at all) while Soul Weaver strengthens what is already the most prominent tool for summoners.

From the outside looking in, as a non-summoner I can see the appeal of Mistress of Sacrifice, and while a great node, everything else is pretty meh. Maybe it would help a non-summoner use a spectre, but I am guessing the other ascendancy classes would provide too much to pass up.

I think the problem in general is that unlike the spectre, the zombie and skeleton damage is tied heavily into the gem level where the spectres are tied to the level of the mob they raise, if one mob is a crappy spectre type then people just ignore it, you have a lot of scope with the spell, as annoying as it is to maintain.

The Necromancer just reinforces what is already the strong hand of the generic summoner and it will mean a non-witch summoner is likely going to be handicapped a fair bit because there is limited scope to boost minion damage, getting significant utility or defense boost from another ascendancy class doesn't really open up a lot more scope to improve minion damage, there aren't many nodes and after a certain point chasing jewel nodes becomes prohibitive.

If the Necro becomes a bit too strong you are likely going to see future spectres balanced based on the most optimal damage output which will hurt the non-necromancer. They might nerf the necromancer ability but if a 4 node ability is underwhelming then it would lose it's lustre somewhat. I think people want to see the harder to acquire abilities open up new possibilities rather than just be a glorified minion damage/health node.

Rather than just boost the status quo, doing something innovative like change Flesh Binding and Soul Weaver so that it opens up different build opportunities.

I'd like to see some sort of life-link in which a portion of the damage the necromancer takes is absorbed by his minions, whenever you receive charges your minions receive them as well and something like a portion of the chaos damage you inflict heals your minions.


I am just pulling shit out of my arse, but something like that would change the dynamic, a lot of different build ideas come to mind, different ways to use the minions, also have the necromancer not be at the back waving the pom poms but are looking at a part minion/part chaos damage build... maybe you are going to do some fire damage and convert with a consuming dark.

The part that of the tree that boosts summoners just isn't inspiring.

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Zvim wrote:

Unless they change the core minion spells then the 145% spectre damage and 120% health for spectres is likely going to trump everything else and summoners will be pigeon-holed into the necromancer due to the substantial increase to spectres.

These days a summoner is usually played with SRS and spectres sharing the damage output, a spectre-only summoner is a dying breed so 100% inc spectre damage won't be as gamebreaking as it might seem. It's also very dependent on monster balance, we've heard many complaints about monster damage being too high, so if they bring it down and at the same time raise their life to account for extra power creep with ascendancy classes spectres might lose some more clout.

Like I said, I'm certainly expecting some sort of 'commander' subclass for Templar which will focus on auras and summons, so it should be a solid option too.

Personally, I feel like Soul Weaver is a new player trap. Yeah, it sounds good on paper, but you're spending 4 of your 6 points just to buff up a single skill (and possibly more than any other archetype, summoners rely on multiple skills). And it's not like it's 100% MORE spectre damage/life - as a summoner, you're already going to have a good bit of general minion damage/life already so in the end, it's going to be more like a 50-65% multiplier. Even within the Necromancy class, Mistress of Sacrifice + Beacon of Corruption feels like the more powerful use of 4 points.

Also, I would be shocked if the Templar didn't have at least one ascendancy class that was really good for a summoner archetype, given their close proximity to most of the minion clusters and the thematic appropriateness of the Templar as a leader.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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True points indeed. And I'm quite surprised by the number of people that are not seeing this. All they see is if you won't pick shadow for a crit build, you're doing it wrong :) Seriously guys, is it all you think when you're making builds? Moar crits, and nothing else matters.

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rdespair wrote:

Also, I would be shocked if the Templar didn't have at least one ascendancy class that was really good for a summoner archetype, given their close proximity to most of the minion clusters and the thematic appropriateness of the Templar as a leader.

If we assume devs did some Sacred 2, I'd be willing to put some orbs on getting 'dominated monsters have % chance to dominate other monsters on kill' in that templar subclass.