Legacy items are bullshit

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Not really. The main difference is playstyle; temporary league players enjoy rerolling, Standard players hate it. Only a small number could actually be bribed away in this manner.

Playstyle is only one factor on temp leagues. With the addition of zana mods there is no reason to ever play in a temp league vs just continuing to play in standard, especially if you view it (as people will) as I can play in standard and enjoy finding items or I can play in a temp league and enjoy finding nerfed items?

The temp leagues draw players in to play for whatever desired time they want, then they move onto another game and come back, rinse and repeat, with the suggested method of having legacy items drop or unnerfed items in standard, then a larger % of players will just play in standard and quit sooner, thats indisputable.


Again, I think you are more focused on the wrong part of this as you won't get anywhere with your suggestion or idea to revert legacy items in standard league. You should be focusing on removing them going forward, stop focusing on the past and focus on the future.

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AngelofRock wrote:

I think legacy items are perfectly fine. They represent the hard work of playing in the past, and add value and depth to the game in terms of more and rare item variety. To put this in a real world example: A man owns a very rare vintage car and no one else can obtain one unless he sells his. Because of this you hate the fact you can not own one of these cars. So you are attempting to take away his and all other rare vintage cars because of the fact you can not own one. This logic literally makes no sense and sounds like an infant crying because he is not getting his way. You should have played the game earlier in development or play the game enough and get "rich" so you can purchase one of these items yourself. Simple enough?

More relevantly, if it makes him happy, then why do you care? Your life is not any less valuable to you because he has this subjective thing that dropped into his life. The kinds of folk who lust for legacies and think it's unfair that they can't have them are the gaudiest. A car is just some gas-guzzling device of shaped steel that adds to the sum entropy of the planet. Quaint. Antiquated. It's value entirely subjective.

To me, this game is about adaptability. Dead relics are cute, but nothing else. The wheel of fortune always spins.

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AngelofRock wrote:

I think legacy items are perfectly fine. They represent the hard work of playing in the past, and add value and depth to the game in terms of more and rare item variety. To put this in a real world example: A man owns a very rare vintage car and no one else can obtain one unless he sells his. Because of this you hate the fact you can not own one of these cars. So you are attempting to take away his and all other rare vintage cars because of the fact you can not own one. This logic literally makes no sense and sounds like an infant crying because he is not getting his way. You should have played the game earlier in development or play the game enough and get "rich" so you can purchase one of these items yourself. Simple enough?

A better analogy is that the old car which he acquired a long time ago is allowed to drive at 100 kp/h, new cars are only allowed to do 80 kp/h on the same road. Suddenly not so fair.

I don't care one way or the other because Standard is meaningless to me, just pointing out.

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AngelofRock wrote:

I think legacy items are perfectly fine. They represent the hard work of playing in the past, and add value and depth to the game in terms of more and rare item variety. To put this in a real world example: A man owns a very rare vintage car and no one else can obtain one unless he sells his. Because of this you hate the fact you can not own one of these cars. So you are attempting to take away his and all other rare vintage cars because of the fact you can not own one. This logic literally makes no sense and sounds like an infant crying because he is not getting his way. You should have played the game earlier in development or play the game enough and get "rich" so you can purchase one of these items yourself. Simple enough?

To me legacy items represent a poor game design, unbalanced, and stupid. It is even more stupid because they became legacy because they were unbalanced in the first place.

You can buy vintage car kits and if you are really good you CAN clone a vintage car pretty easily. There is not one vintage car out there that you cannot get a replica of. Good luck getting the vintage vin number though. And if you do build a vintage car, you are not going to get your account banned.

The other argument I hate is, I worked hard to get these unbalanced cheat items that were left in game due to technical issues of updating the database. Well I worked hard to invest in the stock market for retirement before I lost most of my investments in the crash of 2008. That is life.

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IamtheAxeMan wrote:

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AngelofRock wrote:

I think legacy items are perfectly fine. They represent the hard work of playing in the past, and add value and depth to the game in terms of more and rare item variety. To put this in a real world example: A man owns a very rare vintage car and no one else can obtain one unless he sells his. Because of this you hate the fact you can not own one of these cars. So you are attempting to take away his and all other rare vintage cars because of the fact you can not own one. This logic literally makes no sense and sounds like an infant crying because he is not getting his way. You should have played the game earlier in development or play the game enough and get "rich" so you can purchase one of these items yourself. Simple enough?

To me legacy items represent a poor game design, unbalanced, and stupid. It is even more stupid because they became legacy because they were unbalanced in the first place.

You can buy vintage car kits and if you are really good you CAN clone a vintage car pretty easily. There is not one vintage car out there that you cannot get a replica of. Good luck getting the vintage vin number though. And if you do build a vintage car, you are not going to get your account banned.

The other argument I hate is, I worked hard to get these unbalanced cheat items that were left in game due to technical issues of updating the database. Well I worked hard to invest in the stock market for retirement before I lost most of my investments in the crash of 2008. That is life.

Legacy items are a way GGG can change the meta from league to league, without having the option to change gear going forward all they can change is the passive tree and maybe mechanics of the game thru mobs, which limits their options.

I love the whole stock market comparison, first of all this is a game not real life. You invested into something you knew was a risk at the time, people play ARPG games to find loot, said loot should not be change retroactively just because you think it should be. There shouldn't be risk into playing a game and finding a cool item, only later to discover it completely tuned down. Not a single legacy item IMO should or can even be considered "cheat" they are more powerful then the now droppable versions (in most cases), but that doesn't automatically enable god mode or something. Even the 1k Kaom chest has suffered significantly from the % life node changes in the tree.

Well Played! On the IRL comparison I think maybe 7/10 for effort 3/10 for implementation.

I remember your previous thread in detail with disappointment of "only nerfed items"

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IamtheAxeMan wrote:

Well I worked hard to invest in the stock market for retirement before I lost most of my investments in the crash of 2008. That is life.

LOL, now that's funny! Life isn't fair so take away legacies! Oh, the Irony.

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IamtheAxeMan wrote:

The other argument I hate is, I worked hard to get these unbalanced cheat items that were left in game due to technical issues of updating the database. Well I worked hard to invest in the stock market for retirement before I lost most of my investments in the crash of 2008. That is life.

+1 this game doesn't have enough life.

Similarly, in real life, fires happen, natural disasters happen, burglary and vandalism happen, etc.. I think GGG should take each players' regional yearly average reported loss of property, and distill that into a daily chance that you'll lose items from your stash. That is life, am I right?

Even when it supports my argument, I don't accept logic which equates games with life. Games aren't real life. They're fucking games.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@Sickness: If it's a trade-off, what's the trade?

The negative effects of having legacy items vs the positive effects of not nerfing people stuff.

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Sickness wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

@Sickness: If it's a trade-off, what's the trade?

The negative effects of having legacy items vs the positive effects of not nerfing people stuff.

So the exact same false dichotomy I covered earlier?