Aura Change Feedback and Suggestion

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

You used the same argument you dismissed about your suggestion, against someone else's.

No escaping.


And calm down. So upset lately.

What the fuck are you even talking about.

If you aren't going to add anything to the discussion of the thread why bother posting?

Goetz, you invited people to your thread for discussion on your suggestion.
People give you discussion and you dismiss it.
You then use the same arguments against others' suggestions.
When that is pointed out, you then tell people they are not adding to the discussion.


What is it you want? Agree that your bad suggestion is the bee's knees or gtfo?

?

Like all you did was post the same shit here that you did in the other thread.

You call me out for using an argument that I used before in the other direction, but that simply isn't the case its a completely different idea that those words were in response to.

Quality reading from you like usual.

I don't care if people disagree, but reading and quoting text I made out of context isn't anyway to try and prove my idea is "shit"

I'm with Goetz on this. I think it's a great suggestion, and having read through this entire thread I still can't see any argument against it other than some people have level 21 auras. Um, how is this worse for perm leagues than all the other proposed changes that are causing us to have this discussion in the first place? AS USUAL I have absolutely no idea wtf everyone's fighting about.

Current idea for aura changes will totally screw over many characters, including several of my own. As I've said elsewhere, it's one thing for GGG to ignore Standard regarding balance, economy, etc. But to actively destroy characters that have 1000s of hours and potentially mirrored gear? I do not understand the purpose of that whatsoever. Just as a rule, I don't play videogames to have all my progress deleted, thanks. I understand that others play differently and that's wonderful, but GGG wouldn't be able to attract enough long-term players through 3-month temp leagues alone. There are simply too many people who want semi-permanence and feel that our time has some value...

Primarily what I've learned here: goetzjam and TheAnuhart have a massive hate-on for each other.

@OP: I'd tentatively prefer this to Enlighten gem, but second to simply boosting it by level or even at base.

Don't really see there being a much worse idea than the current one with Enlighten...

Like always idea is good but GGG's implementation is terrible...

@Anu: Two points:
Foremost, it was Scrotie's suggestion; I was merely repeating it.

But also, there is a super big difference between Goetz' counterpoint to that suggestion, and dismissing 0% lv21 gems as a counterpoint. Bottom line is for the latter people still retain exactly what they paid for, the meta would just have shifted and the proverbial rug people were standing on.... for the former GGG would have to remove possessions from the game, because you cannot have 20% gems that can't have quality. They're totally different.

@Scrotie, in re: quality on clarity: I'd like to agree there as well. Both would be suitable; reduced reservation was merely mentioned as Clarity would likely be the most fitting target for such a modifier. Especially if

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CanHasPants wrote:

@Anu: Two points:
Foremost, it was Scrotie's suggestion; I was merely repeating it.

But also, there is a super big difference between Goetz' counterpoint to that suggestion, and dismissing 0% lv21 gems as a counterpoint. Bottom line is for the latter people still retain exactly what they paid for, the meta would just have shifted and the proverbial rug people were standing on.... for the former GGG would have to remove possessions from the game, because you cannot have 20% gems that can't have quality. They're totally different.

But why would this matter to Goetz?

GGG shouldn't care about standard. His point with his suggestion is that it can't have any ill effect in temp leagues, so it is good. I even suggested what if his suggestion was implemented with the ability to GCP up existing only 21 corrupted auras. A flat out 'no, fuck standard players, they can level up, GCP and gamble again and again'.

There being differences in the suggestion you mentioned by Scrotie doesn't really matter, there has to be differences or it wouldn't be another suggestion. What matters is Goetz conveniently used 'existing standard gems' where it fit his agenda.

Goetz also periodically switches from a 'no balancing for standard approach' when it fits his agenda to a 'balancing for standard mirror gear owners' when it fits.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

So why are you against being able to GCP the existing vaaled gems? Even if it was confined to already vaaled ones only?

Or, how about another option; reduce mana reserve of auras further than already on beta and have no further reducing gem such as the live RM or the beta enlighten, or quality?

Or, how about another addition to the above option; have % auras reduce in reservation costs as they level?

Your idea of 'make this change because fuck standard players' is crazy.
Claiming it replaces the current beta design which fucks less standard players is even crazier.
Dismissing ways to make your idea work and not fuck anybody is just outright telling.

Nah auras are fine as they are, no need to buff them. Also, GGG did a good job at replacing rm with enlighten because this change makes it clear that they want aura stacking for wealthy players only, so it can stay strong because the rich are few in number. And balancing around limited supply helps keeping the game competive, not that I have enough time to compete but thats another story.

@TheAnuhart

I see you have a level 100 character, now it makes a little more since about why you seem to hate my idea.

First off lets clear one thing up, I think my idea will better help both people in temp leagues AND people in standard then this current enlighten situation. That being said I don't think GGG should do or not do something based off what people in standard are capable of doing or any pieces of gear that may have been mirrored. That being said if they could add a solution to not brick mirrored gear in the process that would be better then bricking level 21\0 quality gems, not only because gems are much easier to come by in standard they are also much cheaper. The most expensive gem I've seen was level 21\20 arcs that were 30-35ex in its peak, much cheaper then 200+ for mirror and fee. I haven't looked too much into the difference in XP required for enlighten\enhance\empower from live to beta, but if they increased that the cost of such gems might increase as well.

Also its not like people's existing level 21 gems are just automatically shit. They still will be useful for builds that will stack 1 or 2 less auras or just 1-2 auras\heralds altogether.

My suggestion allows for players to pool resources together and purchase multiple GCPs\high quality auras in order to have a stronger party experience, it removes the burden of corrupting a level 3 enlighten only to brick it, but rather moving the option to corrupt auras individually, not only that you can corrupt for +1 (as you would want in most cases) or 20\23, to get that extra bit of less or reduced mana reserved. It creates a whole nother value to desirable gems that currently have no place in PoE.



I have gems that would be made "obsolete from my own suggestion, so its not just screw standard players like you mention, but rather, what is the best tradeoff we can get from this change?

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Nah auras are fine as they are, no need to buff them. Also, GGG did a good job at replacing rm with enlighten because this change makes it clear that they want aura stacking for wealthy players only, so it can stay strong because the rich are few in number. And balancing around limited supply helps keeping the game competitive, not that I have enough time to compete but thats another story.

Its not a buff its a fix to put auras back into a position where they are reachable for most players. My suggestion does not go without significant cost either. Like I mentioned in the first post it moves it to quality of the aura, which currently is a pointless stat that I have yet to see any single build "need" So it will remain to be something only wealthy or groups of players can invest into, which is much better then the .0001% of people that aren't streamers or people that get handed stuff for free. Not only that people can keep the same sockets in their gear, sure some might have extra red ones from the change, but at least they can make there build work with a reinvestment into gems, rather then new mirrored gear. GGG needs to tread carefully about bricking people's mirrored gear (not that i have any) because many of those players have spent significant time in the game and invested a lot into supporter packs, if I had to wager some players might quit altogether if GGG bricks multiple pieces of their mirrored gear.

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goetzjam wrote:

I have gems that would be made "obsolete from my own suggestion, so its not just screw standard players like you mention, but rather, what is the best tradeoff we can get from this change?

Why a tradeoff?

Why not a solution?

Why are you looking at the beta proposal which has downsides and looking for a tradeoff which has other downsides?

I don't get it!

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Or, how about another option; reduce mana reserve of auras further than already on beta and have no further reducing gem such as the live RM or the beta enlighten, or quality?

Or, how about another addition to the above option; have % auras reduce in reservation costs as they level?

^ There.
No downside, nobody's items screwed, nobody's gems screwed, no unpopular shifting of RM to Enlighten. Aura stacking scaling with gem levelling which scales with player levelling, which scales with mana pool size and resource regeneration which in temp leagues scales with wealth. It's all there in a simple approach.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

I have gems that would be made "obsolete from my own suggestion, so its not just screw standard players like you mention, but rather, what is the best tradeoff we can get from this change?

Why a tradeoff?

Why not a solution?

Why are you looking at the beta proposal which has downsides and looking for a tradeoff which has other downsides?

I don't get it?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Or, how about another option; reduce mana reserve of auras further than already on beta and have no further reducing gem such as the live RM or the beta enlighten, or quality?

Or, how about another addition to the above option; have % auras reduce in reservation costs as they level?

^ there. No downside, nobodies items screwed, nobodies gems screwed, no unpopular shifting of RM->Enlighten. Aura stacking scaling with gem levelling which scales with player levelling, which in temp leagues scales with wealth. It's all there in a simple approach.

My idea is a solution, one that has a tradeoff. No matter what feedback we give GGG is going to do what they want, if that means removing the ability to use reduced mana with auras, that means just that. I rather give feedback on how they can improve the socket stress players have now and show them another option rather then just giving up or saying they can't change it.

As for reducing the cost of auras even further then they have on beta without any investment, why? They clearly want players to have to invest time and money into running extra auras, a solution as simple as yours looks like the best for standard players that already have the gems and gear, but it doesn't offer GGG that stepping stone they still want to have, either with reduced mana gem, enlighten or an idea like mine to have it based on quality of auras.

Yes they could reduce it as it levels, but again that doesn't solve the issue that GGG wants people to INVEST. Not to mention it keeps quality auras shitty like they are now.

You have multiple level 21 gems for a wander character, its quite clear you are as bias as can be on this topic and TBH I think its clouding your ability to look at this topic from another perspective, which is leading to your aggressive approach rather then a solution that will only set you back a little bit.

I think you are failing to see how they could turn quality auras into something extremely interesting. Like I mentioned the ability to trade off between 21\20 or 20\23 might make or break certain builds, IMO if they plan around that they can do some really cool things.

But you don't want to lose your value of the multiple 21\0 gems you purchased or leveled, sorry thats life. The meta is changing, the game is changing, either adapt or move over.