So the new Eldritch Battery...

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Snakes are just.. I dunno, maybe too long playing ondars builds, Im not sure Id notice if there was a bug in the game that stopped them doing damage all together.

I don't play any Ondars build and only projectile I'm afraid about, except bosses, are dying porcupines on non-crit non-cold build.

"

Khoranth wrote:

Is there any good reason to use this new EB?

I can only think of one: using zealots oath to make your ES over mana regen high enough to sustain your attack, then you can max out auras with your mana.

THis change basically eliminates using the combo of cloak of defiance EB/AA. since this change removes the huge boost to mana regen EB gave, which allowed you to sustain AA.

allows pure ES regenerated mage builds that don't have to invest in mana% and mana regen% nodes.
(nuke and retreat play-style)
-summoners
-totems
-trappers

all come to mind as candidates for this even flameblast comes to mind, since you can charge it and kill the screen, then recharge and move on.(this depends on fire/prolif changes though)

Normal casters can also do this btw, if the ES pool is big enough, nuke the pack and get reduced ES cooldown nodes so it fills up on way to the next pack.

The zealoths oath variant you listed becomes available which currently does not exist.

A choice between life/es and EB is presented also, which is nice and forces more thought from the player into resource management. (reduced skill cost nodes become very efficient and desirable)

We don't know the mana drain of AA in the new version and the new mana cost of clarity etc.

MoM can be effectively played with mana potion if you just focus on ES regen for skill cost, making the whole MoM play-style much more engaging instead of passive.

probably more stuff i am not considering at the moment.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

enveratise wrote:

THat's why I said: why not use grace/deter IR instead of AA? if you get more reduced mana nodes, you could fit in PoF to compensate for the -fire damage that AA provides?

High level AA was mainly used by casters/wanders which mostly would like to spend points in north part of tree, IR is far south. Theoretically, you need only 14% reservation reduction and 20 lvl RM to fit Grace/Determiation/PoF into mana pool, but then, where is place for some offensive auras/heralds?

And still, you should regenerate your ES somehow in battle, if you don't want to stand in face of inability to use your skills...

"

Boem wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

not sure what you mean tbh, you cant rotate, you can deplete all your es and end up spending mana... if you can sustain while spending the mana part, why would u need the es there?

Lets say for example, you have gotten 50 es regeneration per second.

And you have gotten 50 mana regeneration.

Your spell cost's 100 mana to cast per second.

you have 600 ES and 800 mana (irrelevant)

Now you will start depleting ES to cast your spell 6x and all of your ES is gone.

Then you start on your mana resource, but while you are depleting your mana source, your ES is already refilling at 50es/second

So after a cast on mana you will cast on ES again when 100Es becomes available, giving room for mana to refill.

After this, ES get's room to refill again since your using mana again.

etc etc etc.

you can effectively reduce the total amount regenerated over double sources to have the same output.

Peace,

-Boem-

I dont see that being worth it at all, just spend the points on mana regen and do it all from mana, youre splitting the cost between 2 resources, and then spending the cost in points to regenerate 2 resources, so its not actually more cost effective than just getting mana and mana regen over getting es, zo, life regen, mana, and mana regen. Plus it means you lose your life regen, and you dont have energy shield.

"

tmaciak wrote:

"

enveratise wrote:

THat's why I said: why not use grace/deter IR instead of AA? if you get more reduced mana nodes, you could fit in PoF to compensate for the -fire damage that AA provides?

High level AA was mainly used by casters/wanders which mostly would like to spend points in north part of tree, IR is far south. Theoretically, you need only 14% reservation reduction and 20 lvl RM to fit Grace/Determiation/PoF into mana pool, but then, where is place for some offensive auras/heralds?

And still, you should regenerate your ES somehow in battle, if you don't want to stand in face of inability to use your skills...

ya its just not a viable use of passives and auras for an awful lot of builds, the vast majority. Having to binge on aura nodes, then being able to run grace, det and pof, while taking a trip all the way to the other side of the tree, and then wheres your discipline? wheres your heralds? ZO is in the templar and IR between duelist and ranger, eb is between witch and shadow... so youre pathing to 3 out of 4 corners of the tree... or you can get GR and forget ZO, and now you dont have life leech and cant get LoH with spells. Thats just not a realistic option for the vast majority tbh, even doing half of that isnt on the cards.

"

Saltygames wrote:

I interpret this as ES protecting your mana pool. So it's for MoM users specifically.

Idk, it feels kinda akward. Since ES by itself doesnt protect against chaos.

I mean if this is true, you need a helluva lot of ES to make it worthwhile, as well as alot of life and a buttload of mana (to make MoM worth it)

Meh.

u wouldnt need any mana -.-

so because ur obviously getting 100% mana reserve from auras, im guessing you'll want to go spectral throw or cyclone to proc those damage auras as much as possible. so yay, u also get access to fortify. coupled with cloak of defiance, it seems like the way to go. im assuming you'll take aura nodes too so yay 84% res with saffells and purity. oh and hits cant be evaded vorici rapiers! cool. oh and look, the es on hit jewel affix!

holy cow level batman. sick build. we'll see though.

"

Float wrote:

u wouldnt need any mana -.-

so because ur obviously getting 100% mana reserve from auras, im guessing you'll want to go spectral throw or cyclone to proc those damage auras as much as possible. so yay, u also get access to fortify. coupled with cloak of defiance, it seems like the way to go. im assuming you'll take aura nodes too so yay 84% res with saffells and purity. oh and hits cant be evaded vorici rapiers! cool. oh and look, the es on hit jewel affix!

holy cow level batman. sick build. we'll see though.

This is what I'm thinking.

With EB change they can for example increase basic mana regen and lower mana costs of AA/Clarity/spells without EB totally breaking the game.

So we will see a shift in what build uses Eb and MoM.

My first idea that comes to mind is doing a claw reave build with EB/GR/MOM and reserve 100% mana for auras. With ghost reaver you will leach ES from the claw LL implic mod + those claw LL nodes right next to GR keystone.

To sustain life you use life gain on hit. Reave+MPD+LGOH+MultiS+the new fortify support.

100% mana reserved for probably grace and than offensive auras like HoT/100% fortify uptime and MoM.

Now MoM makes your EB es work kind of like ES already does but it would allow you to reserve 100% without using a BM gem.

"

Float wrote:

"

Saltygames wrote:

I interpret this as ES protecting your mana pool. So it's for MoM users specifically.

Idk, it feels kinda akward. Since ES by itself doesnt protect against chaos.

I mean if this is true, you need a helluva lot of ES to make it worthwhile, as well as alot of life and a buttload of mana (to make MoM worth it)

Meh.

u wouldnt need any mana -.-

so because ur obviously getting 100% mana reserve from auras, im guessing you'll want to go spectral throw or cyclone to proc those damage auras as much as possible. so yay, u also get access to fortify. coupled with cloak of defiance, it seems like the way to go. im assuming you'll take aura nodes too so yay 84% res with saffells and purity. oh and hits cant be evaded vorici rapiers! cool. oh and look, the es on hit jewel affix!

holy cow level batman. sick build. we'll see though.

Hmmm, yeah maybe this is how they are doing it. I figured you couldnt use the ES as mana at all, so instead it was some additional layer for MoM builds.

In that case, it's an interesting change

"

Kinne wrote:

"

Float wrote:

u wouldnt need any mana -.-

so because ur obviously getting 100% mana reserve from auras, im guessing you'll want to go spectral throw or cyclone to proc those damage auras as much as possible. so yay, u also get access to fortify. coupled with cloak of defiance, it seems like the way to go. im assuming you'll take aura nodes too so yay 84% res with saffells and purity. oh and hits cant be evaded vorici rapiers! cool. oh and look, the es on hit jewel affix!

holy cow level batman. sick build. we'll see though.

This is what I'm thinking.

With EB change they can for example increase basic mana regen and lower mana costs of AA/Clarity/spells without EB totally breaking the game.

So we will see a shift in what build uses Eb and MoM.

My first idea that comes to mind is doing a claw reave build with EB/GR/MOM and reserve 100% mana for auras. With ghost reaver you will leach ES from the claw LL implic mod + those claw LL nodes right next to GR keystone.

To sustain life you use life gain on hit. Reave+MPD+LGOH+MultiS+the new fortify support.

100% mana reserved for probably grace and than offensive auras like HoT/100% fortify uptime and MoM.

Now MoM makes your EB es work kind of like ES already does but it would allow you to reserve 100% without using a BM gem.

yeah i agree, requiring the blood magic gem was holding 100% reserve builds back. now es will take its place and still be defending ur life at 30% efficiency as well. to sustain es, ill probs be using ghost reaver with phys life leech on my ammy and blood letting node with es on hit on jewels. ill be getting all the aura nodes except marauders, so proccing as fast as possible seems good. it doesnt matter what the final weapon/skill is. grace is a good choice for the defensive aura, too bad u cant pick up acro, or maybe u could?? u dont need THAT much es if u can sustain like crazy with claws or something :O

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

I dont see that being worth it at all, just spend the points on mana regen and do it all from mana, youre splitting the cost between 2 resources, and then spending the cost in points to regenerate 2 resources, so its not actually more cost effective than just getting mana and mana regen over getting es, zo, life regen, mana, and mana regen. Plus it means you lose your life regen, and you dont have energy shield.

I am just going over possible options and scenario's.

Opportunity cost assessment is out of the question at the moment since we dont have the information required to make those assessments yet.

My example only shows the 50%/50% variant, others are possible and as such allows choices.

And the pure ES recharge out of comebat is an option not to be underestimated since it allows a lot of passive points to be invested in other things then mana.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Kinne wrote:

So we will see a shift in what build uses Eb and MoM.

Yes, it's quite sad, but whatever Boem says, EB/MoM is no more hard caster tool, it's for attack builds.

Summoners don't use much mana if not SRSers, so not much point in losing buffer, even if not so usable. I heard about some totem and traps builds, but I'm not interested playing those, so for me those don't exists and I exclude such from my considerations.

So, for last month I was trying to 6L my almost perfect legacy CoD I was lucky to loot long time ago. No more point in doing so... Thanks Chris, now I don't need to farm for alterations, so will have more time to play other games...