Stop messing with people's builds mid league GGG

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goetzjam wrote:

That skill wasn't designed and added with that implementation in mind, also the build is very niche and the "maker" says he still clears maps fine.

@caustic please ask the person that popularized the build and ask them if they think it is fine, your ignorance astounds me .

I'm sick of the "intention" argument. It's a game of diversity, if the devs only release things they have full flushed out then it's not very diverse. It will have things they don't see, things they don't intend and things they are happy to see but didn't realise were possible. I'm pretty sure when they introduced zealot's oath they didn't expect Invalesco's LL RF FPer to pop up in HC, pre-shavs btw.

Also the maker and I have radically different ideas of "fine." After playing it myself it feels like a massive nerf and the build is OK at best solo and pretty shit in groups. Watching him play, with 2 6ls and a lvl 27 gem, the clear speed was not something I'd want to be playing in 78 maps. That clear speed on a 5l I'd think something was wrong, nevermind a +3 skill 6l bow.

When he did switch to a lower level setup and did a 71 map he struggled to kill blue and rare packs. It wasn't a high level character but it was also a 71 map. His GG setup was not impressive for the cost related with getting all those items. Almost 700 ES 6l chest, +3 gems 6l bow, these items should have a high clear speed associated with them. My SWT totem build at 89, on a 4l did better damage in 78s than what I was watching him do.

I think his view of things might be a little laxed as he seems like the type looking for oddball builds rather than playing standard strong stuff. As someone who jumps between both, this looks like a midrange niche build. I'm pretty sure I could put together a fireball prolif build blows it away. Nevermind EA, flameblast or fire trap which make it look like a joke.

Here's me vs a fire trapper on a 75 map. While it functions, this isn't a build I'd want to slave behind for too many more levels. Pretty sure my GS build, another build more on the niche end these days compared to shit like TS and flameblast, could probably clear twice as fast.



With this impressive 214 dps mace and the 35k DPS it results in.

Mirror arrow was way overnerfed.

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Moosifer wrote:

Mirror arrow was way overnerfed.

Please tell me what other positioning skill is used for primary damage. Only one is leap slam and that isn't used for late game damage except in very rare niche builds.

These skills are no different.

Did any of you bother to talk to the person that "created" the build or at least popularized it? He says its fine.

Oh look, another nerf complaining thread.

People are just stupid judging this. It makes me remember how some people feel about taxes in real life.

builds can be nerfed but existing gear can't.
and the fact of the matter is, the crazier gear you have, the less effort you need to put into the actual build (skill tree, gem links) itself.

and it isn't jealously. it's fact.

people here "complaining" they need more than 4 arrows to take down a rare...
for fuck's sake people I need 3+ arrows to take down a white in appropriate maps for my level, and I'm not even talking about the tanky ones like Golems.

and that's with using THE BOW I dreamed of in Open Beta. the bow I never had a chance of getting, and the bow I never got from RNG because RNG takes pleasure in fucking me: Lioneye's Glare. 5-linked. thanks to Anuhart.
it was supposed to be a loan until I could get my hands on a better bow, but for months now I can't. no matter what I do and no matter what kind of fucking borderline-suicidal "man-mode" maps I run.
I get "leveling uniques" at best, and can come out of a Double Merveil Necropolis empty-handed at worst, with deep scars on my GPU.

2.5k+ god damned hours playing this game. playing and beating most there is to play and beat. look at my Stash. just look at it. your chest piece alone is likely "worth" more than all of it. and that's with all the Legacy Gear I have from being here since Jan 13.

so please pull your heads out of your mirrored-gear, perfect T1 asses, and listen:

your build is not "ruined" just because it now takes you an extra 10 seconds to take down Uber Atziri, and you actually need to dodge an occasional Flame Blast or Storm Call instead of face-tanking her all the way.

keep playing, enjoy your hard-traded or insanely-lottery-like-lucky char, let GGG balance the game, remember some people in this game still consider Mirrored/BiS-Unique gear a dream as distant as traveling to the moons of Jupiter,
and stop with your fucking whining.

Mirror arrow isn't a positioning skill or movement skill, another argument that doesn't make sense. Mirror arrow is just a natural counterpart to blink, which is the intended addition to the game. The damage mods on them, being a minion and based off your bow damage means they are intended to do damage.

Were they intended to do such ridiculously damage with MI, obviously not, hence the nerf. Should they be prevented from doing so, of course not. There's no reason to arbitrarily limit build possibilities.

And like I said in my last post, I watched most of his twitch vod in which he said it's fine. Like I said, if he thinks that clear speed is fine with a +3 6l then we have radically different ideas of what's fine. His bow is going for like 20-30 ex, chest for about the same. Watch his video and tell me you couldn't put together a build with higher clear speed for 60 ex. My uber atziri build cost like 70 ex, was virtually invincible and one shot almost everything.

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johnKeys wrote:

builds can be nerfed but existing gear can't.
and the fact of the matter is, the crazier gear you have, the less effort you need to put into the actual build (skill tree, gem links) itself.

and it isn't jealously. it's fact.

people here "complaining" they need more than 4 arrows to take down a rare...
for fuck's sake people I need 3+ arrows to take down a white in appropriate maps for my level, and I'm not even talking about the tanky ones like Golems.

and that's with using THE BOW I dreamed of in Open Beta. the bow I never had a chance of getting, and the bow I never got from RNG because RNG takes pleasure in fucking me: Lioneye's Glare. 5-linked. thanks to Anuhart.
it was supposed to be a loan until I could get my hands on a better bow, but for months now I can't. no matter what I do and no matter what kind of fucking borderline-suicidal "man-mode" maps I run.

so please pull your heads out of your mirrored-gear, perfect T1 asses, and listen:

your build is not "ruined" just because it now takes you an extra 10 seconds to take down Uber Atziri, and you actually need to dodge an occasional Flame Blast or Storm Call instead of face-tanking her all the way.
so let GGG balance the game, and stop with your fucking whining.

For real dude? How often do you see me bitch about nerfs?

Also you're downplaying 4 mirror arrows compared to 4 arrows from a normal bow. The difference is I'm waiting 12 seconds for mine while on lioneyes that's less than 2, most likely 1 second.

I'm not downplaying anything, Moosifer, and that post wasn't directed at you.

I'm just sick and tired of all those "OMG MY BUILD IZ RUINED!" posts by the uber-geared, uber-rich who due to a usually-much-needed GGG balance change, need an extra 5 seconds to "casually" clear the craziest uber-content-I'll-never-access-no-matter-how-well-I-play-and-for-how-long.
their build is still more than playable, still uber-geared, still capable of "casually" clearing said extreme content, and nothing "iz ruined".

so they should really shut the fuck up, enjoy what their Exaltz and Mirrorz brought them, and remember "mere mortals" like myself are having a heck of a tougher time with and without nerfs.

Your post is directed at me because I'm part of the crowd your belittling. Also I don't think you have any understand of this build as the general complaint is that it's power level was too high for it's cost. Meaning it didn't have mirror worthy items, the original build, and mine, are low life builds without using shavs or solaris. It's hard to assemble this gear and there aren't many high end options, in torment at least where my I'm set up.

Also, it's not 5 more seconds to kill uber atziri, it's more like 15-30 more seconds to kill a rare in a 75 map. I posted a video above of how the build looks now if you actually want to reference what we are talking about rather than blindly attack people complaining about an extreme nerf.

Can you name any other skills that have received an 80% nerf? You've been playing for as long as I have, I can't think of one comparable nerf. I can't even imagine all the CoC nerfs have added up to 80% by this point, which that's probably one of the skills nerfed the heaviest, which has been incremental rather than dramatic like this one. Really the only thing comparable is the CoD nerf which was for PVP only, even that was only 75% ffs.

watched the video. fire trap needs a nerf.
and I have one myself: Burning Discharger with Fire Trap and a Searing Touch.
needs a nerf.
or better yet a risk at playing a trapper, similarly to the risk I have if blowing up without noticing there's an Ele Reflect monster nearby.

80% is indeed a mega-nerf, but it isn't unprecedented.
GGG have a long history of fucking slaughtering builds, burning them, and scattering the ashes.
but my point is, the uber-geared have the least reasons to cry about it - because their gear provides them more than enough of an "anti-nerf buffer" to still keep playing the build, even if it got nuked to the point I no longer can.

in your own video, you are still clearing stuff faster than I ever could.

Fire trap is fine. That's just the type of damage needed for high level play. It should also be expected when on a 6l. I'd have no problem keeping up with him on my GS build with that 220ish weapon I posted or my ice spear build with 18k dps.

What's the precedent? I can't think of many heavy nerfs outside of CoC and CoD. Most builds are just nerfed enough where they aren't good enough compared to the field, or something else comes along to replace it. Like ele buzzsaw replaced ele cleave.