Stop messing with people's builds mid league GGG

sure it was broken as hell. that's not what I asked though. I asked whether or not adjusting a broken mechanic in a game that is first and foremost competitive, is ok as a matter of principle before the season is over. It does give advantage , and even if the advantage is small, as a matter of principle, it is the wrong thing to do. The integrity of the entire season is compromised. In principle.

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Xtorma wrote:

sure it was broken as hell. that's not what I asked though. I asked whether or not adjusting a broken mechanic in a game that is first and foremost competitive, is ok as a matter of principle before the season is over. It does give advantage , and even if the advantage is small, as a matter of principle, it is the wrong thing to do. The integrity of the entire season is compromised. In principle.

I'd agree with you if

A) the build was known and widely used from week 1, it wasn't.

B) the top of the ladder reflected those characters that used this build, it doesn't

C) if it wasn't already 2 months or longer into the leagues, I can understand some people still feel by nature that bloodlines (or any league) is competitive) but if your still trying to be competitive (as in ladder race) you're already late to the party level 100 already in bloodlines.


I'd argue that the flameblast nerf had a large overall impact then this specific nerf. I do tend to slightly agree that the principle of nerfing builds in the middle of the league is probably not a good idea. But understand the situation at hand and its acceptable the power was REALLY TOO HIGH.

Please do understand that this situation is a lose\lose scenario for GGG. I think i'd take the loss of an extremely over-preforming build and QQ over leaving it in the game anyday.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

sure it was broken as hell. that's not what I asked though. I asked whether or not adjusting a broken mechanic in a game that is first and foremost competitive, is ok as a matter of principle before the season is over. It does give advantage , and even if the advantage is small, as a matter of principle, it is the wrong thing to do. The integrity of the entire season is compromised. In principle.

I'd agree with you if

A) the build was known and widely used from week 1, it wasn't.

B) the top of the ladder reflected those characters that used this build, it doesn't

C) if it wasn't already 2 months or longer into the leagues, I can understand some people still feel by nature that bloodlines (or any league) is competitive) but if your still trying to be competitive (as in ladder race) you're already late to the party level 100 already in bloodlines.


I'd argue that the flameblast nerf had a large overall impact then this specific nerf. I do tend to slightly agree that the principle of nerfing builds in the middle of the league is probably not a good idea. But understand the situation at hand and its acceptable the power was REALLY TOO HIGH.

Please do understand that this situation is a lose\lose scenario for GGG. I think i'd take the loss of an extremely over-preforming build and QQ over leaving it in the game anyday.

A, B and C have nothing to do with principle, and also you can not be sure no one in any of those categories did not receive advantage from the arrow build. I am sure you can figure out ways they could have benefited from it without you knowing.

when you have a competition, you are not supposed to change rules, conditions or anything mid race. In principle this is the very definition of unfair.

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Xtorma wrote:

sure it was broken as hell. that's not what I asked though. I asked whether or not adjusting a broken mechanic in a game that is first and foremost competitive, is ok as a matter of principle before the season is over. It does give advantage , and even if the advantage is small, as a matter of principle, it is the wrong thing to do. The integrity of the entire season is compromised. In principle.

In theory, you are entirely correct.

However, from what i can tell, the ladder ended a month ago when the first lvl 100's where achieved and as far as we can judge, without this build.

That's the major difference to "that other instance" you are referring to.

In that case, the top-ladder actually did utilize the build and used it to "taint" the ladder. As a result GGG had to leave it in for other to use in order to create a fair competition overall. (irrelevant if the ladder was already "done" in the sense lvl 100's where already achieved)

At least that's what i like to think. Note, i still think this nerf was poorly handled, but that's irrelevant to your observation.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

sure it was broken as hell. that's not what I asked though. I asked whether or not adjusting a broken mechanic in a game that is first and foremost competitive, is ok as a matter of principle before the season is over. It does give advantage , and even if the advantage is small, as a matter of principle, it is the wrong thing to do. The integrity of the entire season is compromised. In principle.

In theory, you are entirely correct.

However, from what i can tell, the ladder ended a month ago when the first lvl 100's where achieved and as far as we can judge, without this build.

That's the major difference to "that other instance" you are referring to.

In that case, the top-ladder actually did utilize the build and used it to "taint" the ladder. As a result GGG had to leave it in for other to use in order to create a fair competition overall. (irrelevant if the ladder was already "done" in the sense lvl 100's where already achieved)

At least that's what i like to think. Note, i still think this nerf was poorly handled, but that's irrelevant to your observation.

Peace,

-Boem-

So logically, what do you feel my next question is going to be.

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Boem wrote:

At least that's what i like to think. Note, i still think this nerf was poorly handled, but that's irrelevant to your observation.

Count me there too, with the duration those clones have they had other options, like making them invulnerable or something. Ah, well, I guess it was another band-aid fix.

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raics wrote:

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Boem wrote:

At least that's what i like to think. Note, i still think this nerf was poorly handled, but that's irrelevant to your observation.

Count me there too, with the duration those clones have they had other options, like making them invulnerable or something. Ah, well, I guess it was another band-aid fix.

Clones were never meant to enable this MI build that was used. It was sort of a damage decoy positioning tool, nothing more. I will admit the build was pretty amazing, but this is something that should have been caught before being added.

Either way bandaid fix better then no fix. Does no one read the fact that they wanted to patch it before more people spec'd into it?

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Xtorma wrote:

So logically, what do you feel my next question is going to be.

Why bother?

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goetzjam wrote:

Either way bandaid fix better then no fix. Does no one read the fact that they wanted to patch it before more people spec'd into it?

Of course we do, at least some of us disputing the nerf do. It wasn't an entirely bad move in the short therm, but it could have been handled differently i feel.

Ill have more info when i test-run this build in the mid-league race, to see if it was justified.

Peace,

-Boem-

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goetzjam wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Boem wrote:

At least that's what i like to think. Note, i still think this nerf was poorly handled, but that's irrelevant to your observation.

Count me there too, with the duration those clones have they had other options, like making them invulnerable or something. Ah, well, I guess it was another band-aid fix.

Clones were never meant to enable this MI build that was used. It was sort of a damage decoy positioning tool, nothing more. I will admit the build was pretty amazing, but this is something that should have been caught before being added.

Either way bandaid fix better then no fix. Does no one read the fact that they wanted to patch it before more people spec'd into it?

Ah, I wasn't complaining about the fix and I even agree it was misused, if you ask me they should have done it much sooner (and tested it better in the first place). But I think they could have done a better job from the technical standpoint, this feels just clumsy. You know, if you're a sorcerer you say 'abracadabra', not 'jump', it's a matter of style.

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goetzjam wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Boem wrote:

At least that's what i like to think. Note, i still think this nerf was poorly handled, but that's irrelevant to your observation.

Count me there too, with the duration those clones have they had other options, like making them invulnerable or something. Ah, well, I guess it was another band-aid fix.

Clones were never meant to enable this MI build that was used. It was sort of a damage decoy positioning tool, nothing more. I will admit the build was pretty amazing, but this is something that should have been caught before being added.

Either way bandaid fix better then no fix. Does no one read the fact that they wanted to patch it before more people spec'd into it?

Stop with the intended shit. Seriously, it's an illogical argument in a game that claims variety. There SHOULD be unintended things, as 50 people cannot provide endless variety for thousands of players. They're spending their days building shit, while there's hundreds of assholes like me staring at the wiki looking for something new.

Also I broke it down earlier so I'll just put that reply up

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About 2 months after the gems are introduced this pops up on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/2vkp86/guide_llbm_mirror_arrow_burnprolif_truncator/

Shows the concept of the build and how it's covered in bugs, doesn't work sometimes, crashes instances and all that shit.

Then
Fixed an instance crash that could occur when Blink or Mirror Arrow was used with Trap. The next day.

So what we see is while they probably didn't INTEND for this to happen, they busted open the door so it's possible. They could have left it alone, just like shield charge, which had some desync issues fixed in the same patch, shield charge is years old compared to MA's months.

They also had the opportunity to test it's life right then and there. Maybe the fix bugged MA, which resulted in the nerf or whatever. But before the OP video showed up, this build was already theorycrafted, allowed through then nerfed heavily.

While I don't expect GGG to be on top of literally every combination introduced to the game, this came at a slow time during the league, I doubt it got by someone like Bex whose job is to see what the community is doing. Even if it was just thrown into alpha, guy can you test this out, we want to try balancing this out a little better.

I'll even take 60% ffs, I'll keep saying it 80% is too high and just seemed rush through without testing.

I also cover the real reason I'm upset and many other are, it's not that they nerfed the skill which the pro-nerf side seems to keep saying, it's how much and if we want to get specific like Boem is talking, how they nerfed it. Personally I think prolif is more of a problem. But overall 80% was just too high. Look at the BOTW video ffs, that clears faster than my MA arrow build. MA has a ceiling built in because it's a minion, that BA build can get crit, much better bow all these things to make his clear speed MUCH faster. Peppr already has the build pushed to almost it's absolute max damage, +3 6l bow, EE and tri curse, he's missing a 21 gem and that's the end of higher damage. His clear speed on a 78 for absolute peak damage is terrible, doesn't stand up to other summon based builds, nevermind other burn builds.