ok just got curious and looked at AXN's shop

Mirroring is working as expected. But its fun reading so much qq from certain members. and pathetic at the same time.

"

VictorDoom wrote:

.

Btw, even if I do not agreed with you, after looking at your mirror sword thread I can tell you are a gentleman to give a normal 6l value fee for your sword.

But you see if this sword had limited amount of time it get mirrored (say 10-20 time), you could ask for more, get richer and maybe work again hard to craft another one.

Allowing just 1 mirror copy is stupid.

Allowing 10-20 copies per item will be healthy for poe.





@VictorDoom

I know you are around for a long time. But plz don't think poe needs endless amounts of mirror copies per item to a) allow good items to be acquired by players and b) to allow the crafter to make back crafting costs. You know yourself that these daggers and other BIS high demand items got mirrored 100dreds of times with fees of 50-100exa which made the crafter 4-5 times of the crafting costs at least and allows the crafter to stack endless amounts of exalts and craft at least 3-4 other high end items.

The economy fixes limited allowed mirror copies by itself. 10-20 copies per item with adapted mirror fees will allow the crafter to make back his efforts and some profit - not endless profit. It will also engage a new craft in this item class after some time.

Also it will be alot more healthy for different values/crafting costs of different items. Right now it is dagger = mirror + 50-100 exa (which is a difficult craft) and mirror +10-30 exa for easier crafts (whatever). This is almost the same price.

With 10-20 limited mirror copies per item it would be mirror +400-800 exalts for dagger and mirror +20-50 exalts for easier crafts and that would reflect much more the actual value of the items. This would again result in not everybody mirroring a dagger but switch on different set of weapons - WHICH IS HEALTHY.


ffs try to understand economy and get out of your dreamworld or stop defending personal interests or those of friends. Whatever it is it seems dishonest to me or you just don't understand how much of a bad impact these endless amounts of mirror copies of one and the same item has on poe.
1. Discourages others from crafting items
2. It makes few ppl suck up all the exalts in the economy and get out 20k+ exalts out of certain crafts instead of several different crafters of items in one class participating
3. It normalizes mirror costs (mirror+fee) for any items (no matter which tier, value and actual crafting costs) to about 200-250 exalts, therefore only the best items get mirrored (fees too similar) and others get neglected.
4. It keeps mirror prices high and mirror fees low, it should and could be the other way round
5. It makes the game boring as you see always the same items around and the market gets filled with more and more perfectly exalted and divined items that never have to be replaced (new risk = new game = new efforts = new encouragements for players to play this game and work their way up to the top).




Lets look a bit closer at what would happen with limited amount of mirror copies per item:

a) mirror fees go up (for alot of the middle to more difficult crafts)
results in:
- demand for mirrors decreases, own craftings become a more viable alternative

b) demand for new craftings increases (as the amount of mirrored copies per item is limited):
results in:
- every 10th-20th guys who wants this exact item has to recraft it himself
- market (more than one participant, lol) for mirror costs would be created as 2 or more mirror level items of the same kind would make sense at the same time (one divined a bit better but more expensive, one a bit lesser but cheaper in fees)
- demand for mirrors decreases

.... I am too tired to continue the obvious



In the end we will have the following state:

- Mirror prices: goes down
- Mirror fees: goes up
- Value of mirrored items will be much more precicely represented by mirror cost + mirror fee and not as it is now normalized to 200-250 exalts for any item. This again justifies mirroring AND crafting items of lesser classes as the mirror price + mirror fees will get much more flexible to demand/supply and no matter in which state of balance poe is. E.g. mace compared to dagger: mirror costs 80-100 exalts, mace mirror fee 100 exalts (=180-200 exalts total costs), dagger: 80-100 + 400-800 exalts (=480-900 exalts)
- Wealth spread to amount of different people: goes up
- Encouragement for ppl to continue playing the game and get into the mirror cycle: goes up (Even ventor and axn are probably bored with their status in the game, they barely have to take any new risks and their position is inviolably, (yes I know this from first hand)).


If all this is not healthy for poe, I don't know what is. But I guess you guys gonna have your own logic again to explain why you with your odd arguments are right and continue to focus on ppl in the debate that claim that only 1 mirror copy should be allowed, which is obviously stupid, instead of dealing with the viable alternative that I presented to you with this post and also about 18 monthes ago.

hnd, and seriously I do not understand why I have to explain first semester macro-economics to a whole forums and company that is obviously afraid of changes in order to improve their game to the better.

"The biggest risk is not taking any risk... In a world that changing really quickly, the only strategy that is guaranteed to fail is not taking risks." @GGG


p.s: I like to get a bit emotional with these things to spice things up. I am arguing for the matter and not against persons. Don't take it personal.

"

LSN wrote:

snip

i acutally agree with that, and it makes sense, allow roughly 20 copeis of an item and it solves the problem, everyone can still get a mirrored item, people can still keep crafting, and you dont really get into whats happening now, 4 people having all of the mirror worthy items

would be pretty awesome acutally to allow that, if you get 20 copies of an item with a certain fee depending on how much the item cost to craft you can still get your currency back. The only downside being that some items will have MASSIVE fees, but thats ok i guess considering those items are usually insanely strong (daggers, staffs, wands)

but allowing 1 copy of an item... that is still ridiculous and just stupid

Ty,

but again: the higher mirror fees is one of the biggest upsides.

It allows the mirrors to go down in price and then distinguish way more between cheap and expensive crafts in mirror fees. This results in a better balance what items are being mirrored (then not everyone mirrors a dagger for 800 exalts but maybe just the sword/mace/axe for 200-300 exalts).



The only true downside is that this should have been implemented 18 months ago and a change like this might not reach all the players that have already turned their back to this game for weeks and monthes. 2. Mirror prices would go up alot in the transition time (probably double to 360-400 exa) as everybody would want to get their last copy of the gg dagger for 250 instead of 800 ex and so on. But hey, it surely can't get much worse than it is now:

Playing PoE now means playng for ventor and axn (and the few more guys on this wealth level) as the only thing that makes sense for anyone to improve is to go to these guys and mirror one of their items at some point of time. And if you don't go to them yourself you buy stuff from guys who in the end go to ventor and axn to mirror their stuff. Chris, this is essential, read it. While most pppl are not able to name this by themselves, they have this feeling very well likely in their gut. This is not RL where you have to work to survive. It is a fucking game. Ppl turn their back to games when they get this feeling in their gut where all their work in game results in making others "rich". I can only repeat myself. It is essential to at all costs prevent this from happening in a game chris. You can't make a successful game where all the tens of thousands of players who are playing it are working for the extreme wealth of a handful of guys on the top. It is the global source of failure of PoE (the same happens with legacy items). PoE is nothing else than an infinite redristribution machine from bottom to top. Every player of PoE should be aware of the fact that more than 50% of the work he puts into poe goes into the top 5 guys hands.
This is being expressed by people wanting a SFL for ages, deny to trade, and so on. They in fact only want a regulated and balanced game what YOU are unable to provide. They don't want to play for ventor and axn (I hope you both excuse me). The circle has closed. All issues of PoE have been explained and located. The only way the system that YOU have established could work out is if you introduced taxes for the rich and distribute it to the poor - which is ridiculous - therefore changes are needed.

play ladder leagues dudes!

Axn is Chris Wilson.

"

Jideament wrote:

Axn is Chris Wilson.

yearly necro?
wow that rant was a long time ago...

and still GGG balance the game mostly around the economy.
an economy that stands utterly broken for literally years.

there is a positive note though: gameplay-based changes did arrive, and more are coming.

"

johnKeys wrote:

.
and still GGG balance the game mostly around the economy.
an economy that stands utterly broken for literally years.

yet it is cheaper and easier to get everything now than it has ever been in path of exile history

whewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Thanks Obama.