Until melee is fixed, a lot of people will not comeback.

melee will always be inferior to ranged so long as melee needs to invest into more things than ranged to work.


melee needs more defensive mechanics
melee needs more aoe increasing mechanics

but the big problem is that there is effectively no trade off for ranged builds not after the block nerf anyway.

ranged could be just as tanky as melee .. if it wanted too and do just as much damage as melee if it wanted too, with no legitimate increase in investment aside from a lower dps base weapon.

however melee will never have the reach range has.

in short range has everything melee can offer, melee does not have everything range can offer when really there should be something that neither share.

nado shot is just a poster child but you can beat the best aoe melee skill with any ranged skill , gmp chain fire arrow will shit on any melee skill for clear speed and that is using fire arrow in the least efficient way possible.


this could possibly be less of an issue if melee weapons had a much higher base damage when compared ranged weapons (instead of having marginally higher) so that you could afford to invest into things that improve clear speed , like aoe nodes and aoe gems.

but it could also help if skills just got more aoe as they leveled

how cool would it be if some of the melee notables on the tree gave weapon range or aoe ?

the bottom line though is that something needs to be done to free up some of the passive investment needed in melee builds to keep it in line with ranged.

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however melee will never have the reach range has.

Let me refer you to a build I saw the other day, https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1100854/

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in short range has everything melee can offer

With the exception of specific melee skills, ground slam being the "good" niche one (providing perma stun)

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melee does not have everything range can offer when really there should be something that neither share.

Problem is they are the same skill tree (including keystones for the most part), same defensive gems, same auras, same everything basically. So how can you give melee anything without ranged taking advantage as well.

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nado shot is just a poster child but you can beat the best aoe melee skill with any ranged skill , gmp chain fire arrow will shit on any melee skill for clear speed and that is using fire arrow in the least efficient way possible.

See the problem is here people are comparing clearspeeds, naturally if you don't have to be in melee "range" you will always have faster clearspeed. That is simply how these games have worked and will always work.

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this could possibly be less of an issue if melee weapons had a much higher base damage when compared ranged weapons (instead of having marginally higher) so that you could afford to invest into things that improve clear speed , like aoe nodes and aoe gems.

Duelist has +2 weapon range, i'd like to see another node like it either in marauder area or maybe some aoe cluster around the scion area (not her starting nodes), like maybe above the duelist.

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but it could also help if skills just got more aoe as they leveled

That wouldn't be a terrible idea, as it is now melee gems aren't nearly as important as spell gems for levels, this would make corrupting melee gems worth it, which currently IMO it really isn't.

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how cool would it be if some of the melee notables on the tree gave weapon range or aoe

Lol there is, like I said duelist has one. As far as range goes, there is http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Daresso%27s_Salute but the amulet doesn't really seem that good to me. A bit of stats, res and range, but the low life bonuses can't be really used because of the energy shield reduction makes it impossible to go the standard low life.

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the bottom line though is that something needs to be done to free up some of the passive investment needed in melee builds to keep it in line with ranged

Like I said everyone has the same tree, same items, same everything they can basically use, unlike D3 this game doesn't limit skills by classes so you can't simply just give melee 30% damage reduction (like D3 does)

the duelist notable is not a melee notable rather its a starter melee notable , the difference between the two is that one is purposefully made powerful by simple fact it is part of a class start area to make up for the fact that the nodes needed to get to it are often lack luster (if trying to get to it from the outside)

and i said some , not one. one alone is almost nothing. the fact that there really only is one is a good part of the problem with the tree as is. it means there really only is one melee favored aoe node in the game..

utterly inconsequential to the ranged vs melee discussion.

is hard to balance melee, from the go POE has a fair share of melee skills that are not melee at all like ST, lighting strike and to a lesser extend skills like ground slam, those dont have much of a problem now.
its the in your face melee skills like infernal blow, heavy strike or glaciar hammer the ones that truly suffer.

easy solution would be to buff the true melee skills, and by buff i mean a big one say heavy strike going from 150% effectivness and 5% per level to 200% effectivness and 7% increased per level. geting similar levels of damage with lower investment will alow the player to invest more in the much needed defence to survive melee combat.

the not so easy solution is to add a new category so instead of melee and ranged we get melee, ranged and semi ranged. once we get this, current melee keystones can be adjusted to give both bonus say:
10% semi ranged and 14% melee.
using the same logic of 3 categories it will be olso posible to introduce many hibryd keystones like: 10% melee damage and 4% life while semi melee only give the damage boost.

but that is not how people think, people just want the dps number to go up. even if we were to double the damage of melee skills i am willing to bet people wont get enough aoe to be competitive with ranged anyway. ( especially since aoe is often out of the way and takes 4 - 5 filler nodes to get too)


you can one shot everything , but if it takes you two attacks to hit everything , then more dps is meaningless.

Id rather we get more aoe into the core damage nodes and skill progression to help boost the range in which melee is effective over just making it hit things harder.

'more aoe' makes this game pretty dumb in the long run..

if anything to make this game at least semi-reasonable now is to cut mob density and cut aoe. just to make people think a bit and maybe - just maybe - use more than one setup?

btw - removing leech from ranged would have changed A LOT. reflect is harder without leech, sustain is harder without leech, mana management is harder without leech, blood magic is pretty damn expensive if one has to use a LL gem + BM gem etc. and then there is a melee guy who cares not about this and just sustains 'for free' (from the ranged standpoint)

but this wont happen - the outrage and nerdcry just imagine it

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

the duelist notable is not a melee notable rather its a starter melee notable ,

the difference between the two is that one is purposefully made powerful by simple fact it is part of a class start area to make up for the fact that the nodes needed to get to it are often lack luster (if trying to get to it from the outside)

It is still a notable, simply because it is in a starting area of a class doesn't mean it still isn't there, when you wrote before you didn't even mention it, it exists, the templar aoe nodes exists (many melee builds get these) Just because you don't see it is an option (for whatever reason) doesn't mean it isn't there.

AoE isn't the issue, you can AoE mobs with melee skills. Thinking that is the issue makes me think you've never played melee at all before.

As for @caboom

Melee doesn't lack damage, idk how many times this has been mentioned before but it simply doesn't. With support gems like multistrike, faster attacks, melee phys, added fire (I can continue) They have plenty of support gems to help DPS.

@sidetherat

People roll packsize maps for multiple reasons (even melee builds) People don't want leveling, mapping, drops to get worst, which all would if packsize went down. Packsize isn't the issue for melee, you should be able to tank most packsize monsters ambushing you (exception being devourers) if you can't something needs changed in your build.

Removing leech from ranged would be a joke. What about spells too? Why not just remove leech from the whole game while you are at it. This isn't a solution to the problem at all.

Its not about the outcry its about changing a fundamental way for some builds to actually sustain. We want to encourage users to play melee, not make everything else unplayable.

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Its not about the outcry its about changing a fundamental way for some builds to actually sustain. We want to encourage users to play melee, not make everything else unplayable.

as long as ranged and melee have access to all mechanics and perks but do not share same risks there is no logical reason to play melee at all. people play it due to fun or theme reasons but it makes no sense from efficiency standpoint

adding new stuff to melee by ggg - this im afraid of. remember too many 'questionable' design decisions (that turned better for ranged anyway..)

so the only way is to cut something from ranged portfolio: leech is a nice candidate (btw leech gem STAY! it is only the item/tree leech that is melee only

in short - you need fundamental changes to change fundamental issue and if one cannot make melee more appealing, then everything else needs to go down.

pack size reduction (ofc with corresponding xp/loot changes to keep current ratios) would remove AOE or gtfo a bit. further promoting melee over AOE - again by limiting AOE importance

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as long as ranged and melee have access to all mechanics and perks but do not share same risks there is no logical reason to play melee at all. people play it due to fun or theme reasons but it makes no sense from efficiency standpoint

Its a game, why does efficiency matter to so many people?

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adding new stuff to melee by ggg - this im afraid of. remember too many 'questionable' design decisions (that turned better for ranged anyway..)

Like cwdt I am guessing?

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so the only way is to cut something from ranged portfolio: leech is a nice candidate (btw leech gem STAY! it is only the item/tree leech that is melee only

It is too late for item leech to change, so many items provide leech (atziri belts), master crafting, ect. This isn't something you want to change to try and make melee more favorable.

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in short - you need fundamental changes to change fundamental issue and if one cannot make melee more appealing, then everything else needs to go down.

This game isn't in beta anymore, can't change something like this. Life leech for melee only won't solve the disadvantage that melee has.

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pack size reduction (ofc with corresponding xp/loot changes to keep current ratios) would remove AOE or gtfo a bit.

Melee skills have aoe, even the ones that don't have support gems that work with aoe, not sure where this idea that melee doesn't have aoe come from.

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further promoting melee over AOE - again by limiting AOE importance

Again melee has AoE this isn't the issue.

i wont discuss this idea, i know im right (in need for fundamental switch) but this is unpopular due to people not liking to going down the power curve

about melee having aoe - compare that to offscreening 2 screens away with no risk whatsoever. melee has little to no aoe compared to that. sure, reave is fine and all but even that has no offscreen potential and thus - is risky.