Melee is the worst bullshit ever in poe

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Vincendra wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

HP regen I've always seen as a luxury I don't need. It's never going to be fast enough to keep up with the fights compared to leech and flasks and is points I can put into actual life nodes.

This is only true for the right side of the tree though. My Mara is rocking 700 Health/ sec with 7 End charges and Vita on. That is a perma flask.

My flask gives me 1500HP instantly :P 3K if I'm running two of them. No amount of regen from tree or gem can compete with that, and it's there when I need it most.

People have been complaining about the one-shot meta since before beta testing. It's considered part of the hardcoreness of POE now, but I think it's just lame. Much of that stuff gets nerfed after a patch release (invasion bosses, order of the frozen sky, etc). If they got rid of all that stuff melee might be ok, but much of that stuff still exists and as long as it does ranged will be superior.

The real problem is the multiple number of ways damage can be scaled simultaneously, both on characters and on mobs. This is usually how people die.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

My flask gives me 1500HP instantly :P 3K if I'm running two of them. No amount of regen from tree or gem can compete with that, and it's there when I need it most.

People have been complaining about the one-shot meta since before beta testing. It's considered part of the hardcoreness of POE now, but I think it's just lame. Much of that stuff gets nerfed after a patch release (invasion bosses, ice rain mobs whatever theyre called in this league). If they got rid of all that stuff melee might be ok, but much of that stuff still exists and as long as it does ranged will be superior.

The real problem is the multiple number of ways damage can be scaled simultaneously, both on characters and on mobs. This is usually how people die.

I can use them with 20% increased effectivenes (mara tree) ONTOP of 700 base regen FYI.

I have to agree though that all those do not help if you get instagibbed by shit. And I have been instagibbed with 6,5k HP too much to serioulsy consider going Melee in HC.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

The real problem is the multiple number of ways damage can be scaled simultaneously, both on characters and on mobs. This is usually how people die.

I've been saying this since basically the end of CB / beginning of OB. Continual power creep told me to stfu about it ^-^

The lower extremes are too UP, the upper extremes are too OP, and there is very little stable ground in between.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

The real problem is the multiple number of ways damage can be scaled simultaneously, both on characters and on mobs. This is usually how people die.

To me it's a big "+" for Path of Exile, not a problem at all, and it shows you have a problem with the game instead. I remember the video from Kripp, "Why you'll never faceroll PoE". He was describing these mechanics exactly and it is clearly a huge part of what makes this game exciting for those who like it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j5a_voG6K4). The fact you can encounter Brutus in a room with extra lightning beside a diamond totem with mobs with "powerful crits" and a Rare with a crit damage aura around is awesome. It's not like these T6 rifts run in D3 for example, in which you can roll your face on your keyboard once you got the gear and you'll never die, ever, because you know nothing will happen to you.

To me it's typically a part of the few things that are at the core of PoE and on which people should decide if they will like/play the game or play an other one. You can't change it without changing the game so much it's basically becoming something else, not a "changed PoE", but a new object. At that level it's not a matter of "good" or "bad" anymore that can be changed through feedback, it's pure subjective tastes and just a matter of "you like it or not". When coming to an Italian Restaurant, nobody mentally healthy would cry and ask for fried rice with duck and soy sauce. Everyone there would tell the guy he might be in the wrong place and that the best idea is that he finds a Chinese Restaurant, not changing the core design of the Italian Menu served in that place.

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

The real problem is the multiple number of ways damage can be scaled simultaneously, both on characters and on mobs. This is usually how people die.

To me it's a big "+" for Path of Exile, not a problem at all, and it shows you have a problem with the game instead. I remember the video from Kripp, "Why you'll never faceroll PoE". He was describing these mechanics exactly and it is clearly a huge part of what makes this game exciting for those who like it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j5a_voG6K4). The fact you can encounter Brutus in a room with extra lightning beside a diamond totem with mobs with "powerful crits" and a Rare with a crit damage aura around is awesome. It's not like these T6 rifts run in D3 for example, in which you can roll your face on your keyboard once you got the gear and you'll never die, ever, because you know nothing will happen to you.

To me it's typically a part of the few things that are at the core of PoE and on which people should decide if they will like/play the game or play an other one. You can't change it without changing the game so much it's basically becoming something else, not a "changed PoE", but a new object. At that level it's not a matter of "good" or "bad" anymore that can be changed through feedback, it's pure subjective tastes and just a matter of "you like it or not". When coming to an Italian Restaurant, nobody mentally healthy would cry and ask for fried rice with duck and soy sauce. Everyone there would tell the guy he might be in the wrong place and that the best idea is that he finds a Chinese Restaurant, not changing the core design of the Italian Menu served in that place.

In a void, sure, I'd probably agree with you that this is part of the appeal of the game. I mean really you're right it still is anyways.

The problem with this though is that it's impossible to balance anything. You need strategically threatening gameplay, not faceroll until instadeath, to make this game (or any arpg) balanced

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

The real problem is the multiple number of ways damage can be scaled simultaneously, both on characters and on mobs. This is usually how people die.

To me it's a big "+" for Path of Exile, not a problem at all, and it shows you have a problem with the game instead. I remember the video from Kripp, "Why you'll never faceroll PoE". He was describing these mechanics exactly and it is clearly a huge part of what makes this game exciting for those who like it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j5a_voG6K4). The fact you can encounter Brutus in a room with extra lightning beside a diamond totem with mobs with "powerful crits" and a Rare with a crit damage aura around is awesome. It's not like these T6 rifts run in D3 for example, in which you can roll your face on your keyboard once you got the gear and you'll never die, ever, because you know nothing will happen to you.

To me it's typically a part of the few things that are at the core of PoE and on which people should decide if they will like/play the game or play an other one. You can't change it without changing the game so much it's basically becoming something else, not a "changed PoE", but a new object. At that level it's not a matter of "good" or "bad" anymore that can be changed through feedback, it's pure subjective tastes and just a matter of "you like it or not". When coming to an Italian Restaurant, nobody mentally healthy would cry and ask for fried rice with duck and soy sauce. Everyone there would tell the guy he might be in the wrong place and that the best idea is that he finds a Chinese Restaurant, not changing the core design of the Italian Menu served in that place.

In a void, sure, I'd probably agree with you that this is part of the appeal of the game. I mean really you're right it still is anyways.

The problem with this though is that it's impossible to balance anything. You need strategically threatening gameplay, not faceroll until instadeath, to make this game (or any arpg) balanced

^

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The problem with this though is that it's impossible to balance anything. You need strategically threatening gameplay, not faceroll until instadeath, to make this game (or any arpg) balanced

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What exactly would strategically threatening gameplay be?


Can someone list the top 5-10 1 shot mechanics I keep hearing that only are a problem for melee builds?

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goetzjam wrote:

Can someone list the top 5-10 1 shot mechanics I keep hearing that only are a problem for melee builds?

- Vaal Smash
- Touch of God
- Multi-projectile spellcasters
- Bloodlines Obelisks
- Volatile enemies (including Tora mobs, Tormented Martyr)

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Legatus1982 wrote:

As for the first 5 nodes, I don't think you fully understand the damage potential of plain "Phys damage" nodes. I am one-shotting bosses in a2 merc with 2x wicked golden kris.

And I've only got like 15 or so points in damage.

I deeply thank GGG for giving me these nodes.

lol, after all our talks so far you really think I dont understand something like phys damage on a phys damage build? Thats amusing. I do own a few knives, I know what they do.

the build thing you posted is interesting, I like the idea as a concept, its fun and thematic. I do however look at it and think "this guy is going to die". You like those phys nodes but you arnt looking at point efficiency.

The first 5 nodes of the shadow give you 57% phys damage, for 5 nodes. You also take Master Force, which costs you 6 nodes for 40% phys damage. Flaying however, that you didnt take, is 4 nodes and gives you 54% phys damage + 19% attack speed. So those 4 nodes you didnt pick up are probably worth double the dps of the 5 node investment at the shadow start and the 6 node investment under it. I fully understand what phys damage does for daggers, I just know bad point spending when I see it. The Ranger starts with life + evasion and they're efficient nodes. If you compare Hired Killer and Melding to Herbalism, Thick Skin, Revenge Of The Hunted etc that you didn't take you are getting much less out of your points.

Thing with CoD, EB+AA and Dual Curse, these are Caster defenses, aka, really bad defenses that in no way compete with the robust melee defenses in the bottom of the tree but are the only thing on hand for a Caster build that is forced to stick to the top of the tree for its damage. This is on purpose, so is your build having 150% life where a melee living middle to bottom of the tree is getting 180%, casters have a distinct disadvantage survivability wise, and so does your particular melee build. So goetzjam does have a point, the builds you play are relevant because they are responsible for your take on melee. If you play melee builds that rely on weak Caster defenses, skipping good Melee defenses, then complain Melee is underpowered compared to Casters survivability wise... you must see that right?

Dual dagger for melee is not that great man, you really want a shield in most cases unless you are stacking ridiculous defenses, which you're not. Now I'm not saying you build is bad, I actually like it and I like that pick a theme and go with it sort of mentality. The shadow is es+ev so use them both etc. But I feel that if you want to make a really tough, survivable, high damage dagger melee you go Ranger, you take a shield, use a Lightning Coil, Acrobatics, Ondars, take all the life and regen nodes from duelist and span up to the Shadow area for Adders Touch and Nightstalker, run Grace + Hatred. You're going to have more life, way more defenses, more damage. I dont believe everyone should always do the most optimum thing, you should have fun, but you got to understand GGG are going to balance the game around what can be done. Theres a lot of possibility for really tanky, high damage melee characters, they have to balance the game from the presumption that the player is trying to be as effective as possible within his means.

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pneuma wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Can someone list the top 5-10 1 shot mechanics I keep hearing that only are a problem for melee builds?

- Vaal Smash
- Touch of God
- Multi-projectile spellcasters
- Bloodlines Obelisks
- Volatile enemies (including Tora mobs, Tormented Martyr)

2 of those are 1 shots, vaal and touch, and neither of those you should ever be hit by. The other 3 shouldnt be 1 shotting you if you have decent defenses, that is a sign your build and/or gear is awful or you are pushing content you are seriously under leveled for. If these are things you die to regularly then you are bad, its not melee thats bad, your character is absolutely terrible for one reason or another.

What kind of defences work vs volatile enemies? Iirc these cannot be dodged evded nor blocked. So only remaining option is facetank. And these (esp the instable minions) can be really dangerous due to chaos on the screen and bein spawned right on top of a character.

and there is also 'the desync' - any one shot is potentially fatal with it. we've all seen it, it happens. people that say they can always see it and mitigate it are jokers. plenty of highprofile and highskill streamers and their bs one-shot deaths should be enough of a proof

mere Magnus flameblast is a scary thing for any short range char - noone really knows where stuff 'is' (and /oos has a cooldown). this applies to smashes, touches, corpse explosions (oh yeah.. ), underwater stormcalls etc melee-only vices