Still no balance a year later - with facts

He is counting the characters that are still alive. The 31st place ALIVE char in beyond is indeed a Shadow.

For that matter, what the fuck difference does it make if they are dead or alive? Are you saying a LEVEL 99 CHAR was underpowered simply because it died? Multiple level 97 chars?

Your facts are simply opinions based on arbitrary rules.

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Again, FACTS. 0 surviving shadows in top 40 is a FACT, not an opinion with a bunch of conjecture as to why that is. It is a FACT that has remained true since at least before March.

Other classes being able to do any build just as well? Aside from being FACTUALLY inaccurate, it's also conjecture which you can't support with anything besides an opinion.

Stop saying the words "FACTS" when you try to put up your opinions. No shadow in top 40 Beyond = FACT. Your interpretations of these are not FACTS at all. Some people tried to explain you here why "no Shadow in top 40" (FACTS) doesn't mean the Shadow sucks balls. They didn't say your FACTS are wrong, they are discussing your interpretation of the FACTS with their interpretations based on the same FACTS. But you just chose to call them stupid.

Lol, basically what you just said amounts to "I don't care about the facts, shadows are fine because some people said so", then claimed I'm guilty of spewing opinions as fact. You listed the real data in your own post, own up to it and stop legitimizing stupid baseless claims from the sheeple.

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Antnee wrote:

He is counting the characters that are still alive. The 31st place ALIVE char in beyond is indeed a Shadow.

For that matter, what the fuck difference does it make if they are dead or alive? Are you saying a LEVEL 99 CHAR was underpowered simply because it died? Multiple level 97 chars?

Your facts are simply opinions based on arbitrary rules.

He said surviving at rank 31. That implies dead characters are in the total count, else the word "SURVIVING" wouldn't make much fucking sense in that sentence, would it? Since, you know, there can't be any dead characters in a list of surviving characters, the use of the word "surviving" would be pretty fucking redundant.

I've already listed the relevant data, feel free to show how adding the dead characters to the count changes anything. The class is underrepresented in the top tiers of HC play and it has been that way since the beginning, or at least in the last 8+ months.

We were only discussing shadows because that's what I posted about 8 months ago. If you want to discuss balance about classes and how they are all fine, we can start talking about duelists too. Not my area of expertise, but I counted 2 in the top 100 and both are dead. It doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Again, FACTS. 0 surviving shadows in top 40 is a FACT, not an opinion with a bunch of conjecture as to why that is. It is a FACT that has remained true since at least before March.

Other classes being able to do any build just as well? Aside from being FACTUALLY inaccurate, it's also conjecture which you can't support with anything besides an opinion.

Stop saying the words "FACTS" when you try to put up your opinions. No shadow in top 40 Beyond = FACT. Your interpretations of these are not FACTS at all. Some people tried to explain you here why "no Shadow in top 40" (FACTS) doesn't mean the Shadow sucks balls. They didn't say your FACTS are wrong, they are discussing your interpretation of the FACTS with their interpretations based on the same FACTS. But you just chose to call them stupid.

Lol, basically what you just said amounts to "I don't care about the facts, shadows are fine because some people said so", then claimed I'm guilty of spewing opinions as fact. You listed the real data in your own post, own up to it and stop legitimizing stupid baseless claims from the sheeple.

And now you have reading issues. I didn't say any of that, you're taking things out of your ass. I'll sum it up for you. Here is what I said :

FACT : No Shadow alived in top 40.
Your INTERPRETATION based on that fact : that means Shadows are crap.
Some others interpretation based on that same fact : that doesn't automatically means Shadows are crap.

This thread has reached a critical level of pedantic.

I'd still like you to address how you think that, despite the fact that there's multiple level 97+ shadows in the top 40, it doesn't matter because they fucked up once.

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Antnee wrote:

This thread has reached a critical level of pedantic.

I'd still like you to address how you think that, despite the fact that there's multiple level 97+ shadows in the top 40, it doesn't matter because they fucked up once.

He will surely answer you with a post beginning by "lol", that what you say is plain conjectures based on nothing and what he says is based on facts and that you're stupid. Now I'm out of that bs thread.

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

And now you have reading issues. I didn't say any of that, you're taking things out of your ass. I'll sum it up for you. Here is what I said :

FACT : No Shadow alived in top 40.
Your INTERPRETATION based on that fact : that means Shadows are crap.
Some others interpretation based on that same fact : that doesn't automatically means Shadows are crap.

They are underperforming, sorry that is not an opinion that is a fact based on the data we currently have. According to the definition of underperforming, class selection = median, class representation in top 40 and top 100 = less than median, that is a lack of performance, not my opinion based on the matter. You can argue whether I'm saying shadows are worse than what the data already shows for me, I'm pretty sure I haven't done that, and it's not even relevant because the class is underperforming regardless of how I represented it. You're wasting everyone's time with this pointless nonsense. The only people here who have posted completely unfounded opinions are the people who say shadow is fine, that again is not an opinion, there are 0 examples of data showing shadow is fine by any of the people here who say it is fine. There IS a lot of people who are trying to explain it away with what may be reasonable claims, but are completely unsupported by any real evidence so it's moot.

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Antnee wrote:

This thread has reached a critical level of pedantic.

I'd still like you to address how you think that, despite the fact that there's multiple level 97+ shadows in the top 40, it doesn't matter because they fucked up once.

Fucking up once isn't relevant in this discussion. Every person with every class is equally capable of fucking up once. The difference is, numbers show shadows are more susceptible to dying than other classes. Witches dominate the top of the board, and they are equally likely to be piloted by someone who fucked up compared to shadows. Period. This is statistical data encompassing a large group.

Again, if you feel that these shadows being added to the list somehow makes them look better, well I don't know what to tell you. Back up your claims with data, it's there, but most people would say if you're dead the build didn't perform very well.

For example, in the top 60 there are 6 shadows, 5 are dead. This is a pattern of shadows dying in top level content. I'm not making this claim, it's DATA.

Go look at duelist counts.

How foolish of me to think you were looking at live characters in a hardcore ladder. Why would you include dead characters in a list that is supposed to show who achieved high level without dying?

If you want to choose facts out of context, then how about these facts:
There are 3 times as many dead Witches in the "top 40" than Shadows
There are 1.5 times as many dead Rangers in the "top 40" than Shadows
There are no dead Duelists or Scions in the "top 40"

Proof that Shadows are 300% better than Witches and 150% better than Rangers
Proof that Duelists and Scions are the best classes in hardcore because none died in the "top 40"

Does that fit your logic?

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Legatus1982 wrote:

Anyone who has anything sensible to add against this is free to do so, I'm getting tired of the endless droves of mindless spewing with literally nothing supporting those opinions.

Then please stop posting already.