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Legatus1982 wrote:
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mark1030 wrote:
Somebody on Reddit posted a graphic showing what classes and levels achieved for the 15,000 people in the ladders for Rampage and Beyond:
http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/2n1by6/end_of_league_ladder_breakdown_classes_levels/
The graphic is in the first post but here is a direct link: http://i.imgur.com/4c9QAum.jpg
Proof positive that the OP in this topic is full of crap. Shadows were the third most popular class in both leagues, only behind Ranger and Witch. If you would have been arguing that Templar and Duelist were the crappy classes, you might have had a point. But probably only for a few more weeks since we already know both those classes are getting reworked in the 1.3.0 tree.
That's a cumulative total and indicates nothing guy. I could roll 10000 level 2 anything and make it top that list. This is about performance and you contributed nothing to that.
Number in top and number dead can be correlated with performance. That doesn't mean causation.
It happens that the top XX players in any season are more or less the same people. And have their own bias in class choice, or prefer specific builds which have little to do with the performace of a specific class (Shadow) and more to do with what builds are currently most effective or most interesting to top players.
This has nothing to do with the shadow CLASS. In fact shadows are the best critters, and therefore the most high performance in the game.
It just happens that critters DIE because they're CRITTERS and not TANKS. There's always trades for performance.
IGN - PlutoChthon, Talvathir
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Posted byAutocthon#5515on Nov 22, 2014, 3:58:31 PM
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Autocthon wrote:
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Legatus1982 wrote:
"
mark1030 wrote:
Somebody on Reddit posted a graphic showing what classes and levels achieved for the 15,000 people in the ladders for Rampage and Beyond:
http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/2n1by6/end_of_league_ladder_breakdown_classes_levels/
The graphic is in the first post but here is a direct link: http://i.imgur.com/4c9QAum.jpg
Proof positive that the OP in this topic is full of crap. Shadows were the third most popular class in both leagues, only behind Ranger and Witch. If you would have been arguing that Templar and Duelist were the crappy classes, you might have had a point. But probably only for a few more weeks since we already know both those classes are getting reworked in the 1.3.0 tree.
That's a cumulative total and indicates nothing guy. I could roll 10000 level 2 anything and make it top that list. This is about performance and you contributed nothing to that.
Number in top and number dead can be correlated with performance. That doesn't mean causation.
It happens that the top XX players in any season are more or less the same people. And have their own bias in class choice, or prefer specific builds which have little to do with the performace of a specific class (Shadow) and more to do with what builds are currently most effective or most interesting to top players.
This has nothing to do with the shadow CLASS. In fact shadows are the best critters, and therefore the most high performance in the game.
It just happens that critters DIE because they're CRITTERS and not TANKS. There's always trades for performance.
So you admit that shadow builds die in hc more than other classes? That's good, now you're understanding. That is the most important thing in hc and yes, when a class accounts for the median picked (your own data) and performs poorly at the top, that is a performance issue not a selection or popularity one.
My thanks for filling in the gaps for me, it would have been disputable before your gracious contribution, lol.
And I'm the clueless one, rofl. Facts people.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
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Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on Nov 22, 2014, 4:08:33 PM
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Posted byLegatus1982#1658on Nov 22, 2014, 4:00:31 PM
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Incidentally the top 10 you linked is full of witches. Witches and shadows are pretty much interchangeable atm and people who play them are likely to take starter nodes from both due to how strong they are.
Nobody plays Scion anymore. Please un-nerf.
Shop closed until further notice. Check out my Dominus musical tribute instead:
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Posted byMadEFact#6481on Nov 22, 2014, 4:23:01 PM
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Legatus1982 wrote:
So you admit that shadow builds die in hc more than other classes? That's good, now you're understanding. That is the most important thing in hc and yes, when a class accounts for the median picked (your own data) and performs poorly at the top, that is a performance issue not a selection or popularity one.
My thanks for filling in the gaps for me, it would have been disputable before your gracious contribution, lol.
And I'm the clueless one, rofl. Facts people.
The fact that a class that is inherently squishier dies more has nothing to do with whether taht class has good performance. It just means that it requires greater mechanical skill to NOT die.
Let us imagine a class that has 1 life and infinite DPS. You have instant clear speed until you mess up. This class will perform better than ANYTHING ELSE in the hands of a skilled player, but will die more because messing up is a bigger deal. This isn;t the case for shadows tho.
In the case of shadows the only reaosn it has less performance is because the bets performance possible is low life ES. That's it. Shadows have an awkward position for low life, so they don't get used for the build, and because that one build is exponentially better than almost all other builds (and because the top XX players have bias in their class choice) they don't get representation.
Hell even "bad" shadow has better ranking than Marauder (one has, dead, broken top 20, shadow has two dead in the top 20, most likely from stupid mistakes) and the whole tree is dominated by Witch and Templar (HELO LOW LIFE) purely because ZO/ES is readily available to both.
Hell from a purely performance standpoint Shadows are doing better than marauders with their 10% representation in the top 20, vs marauder 5%. And both are doing infinitely better than duelist's representation in the top 40.
So the simple fact is that death in this game has almost nothing to do with performance. Well played any class won't die, well played shadow has better potential performance than essentially any class.
The SC ladders are infinitely better at representing actual performance of any given class in this game than HC by the way. One shot mechanics are too numerous, gear checks are too hard, RNG is too prevalent, for death to be an accurate representation of class performance.
IGN - PlutoChthon, Talvathir
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Posted byAutocthon#5515on Nov 22, 2014, 4:26:54 PM
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Class balance isn't the driving factor in who gets L95+
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Posted byPolarisOrbit#5098on Nov 22, 2014, 6:22:34 PM
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You're probably the only one that cares about ''class balance'' I'm just letting you know that
Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn
Sahl djahs afah
Mah morn narr
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Posted byCoconutdoggy#1805on Nov 22, 2014, 6:31:42 PM
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PolarisOrbit wrote:
Class balance isn't the driving factor in who gets L95+
Do tell us all, since you're so smart.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it.
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Posted byLegatus1982#1658on Nov 22, 2014, 7:01:00 PM
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"
Autocthon wrote:
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Legatus1982 wrote:
So you admit that shadow builds die in hc more than other classes? That's good, now you're understanding. That is the most important thing in hc and yes, when a class accounts for the median picked (your own data) and performs poorly at the top, that is a performance issue not a selection or popularity one.
My thanks for filling in the gaps for me, it would have been disputable before your gracious contribution, lol.
And I'm the clueless one, rofl. Facts people.
The fact that a class that is inherently squishier dies more has nothing to do with whether taht class has good performance. It just means that it requires greater mechanical skill to NOT die.
Let us imagine a class that has 1 life and infinite DPS. You have instant clear speed until you mess up. This class will perform better than ANYTHING ELSE in the hands of a skilled player, but will die more because messing up is a bigger deal. This isn;t the case for shadows tho.
In the case of shadows the only reaosn it has less performance is because the bets performance possible is low life ES. That's it. Shadows have an awkward position for low life, so they don't get used for the build, and because that one build is exponentially better than almost all other builds (and because the top XX players have bias in their class choice) they don't get representation.
Hell even "bad" shadow has better ranking than Marauder (one has, dead, broken top 20, shadow has two dead in the top 20, most likely from stupid mistakes) and the whole tree is dominated by Witch and Templar (HELO LOW LIFE) purely because ZO/ES is readily available to both.
Hell from a purely performance standpoint Shadows are doing better than marauders with their 10% representation in the top 20, vs marauder 5%. And both are doing infinitely better than duelist's representation in the top 40.
So the simple fact is that death in this game has almost nothing to do with performance. Well played any class won't die, well played shadow has better potential performance than essentially any class.
The SC ladders are infinitely better at representing actual performance of any given class in this game than HC by the way. One shot mechanics are too numerous, gear checks are too hard, RNG is too prevalent, for death to be an accurate representation of class performance.
Any class can stack dps and die, hc performance on the ladder shows their real performance.
And yes, there are probably classes worse off than shadow, I said that in the OP.
If I'm the only one who cares about clad balance in a game? Fine then, but I challenge you to support that statement. Balance is important.
my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes
-----
Bug Fixes:
People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on Nov 22, 2014, 7:07:11 PM
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Posted byLegatus1982#1658on Nov 22, 2014, 7:05:42 PM
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"
Legatus1982 wrote:
"
mark1030 wrote:
Somebody on Reddit posted a graphic showing what classes and levels achieved for the 15,000 people in the ladders for Rampage and Beyond:
http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/2n1by6/end_of_league_ladder_breakdown_classes_levels/
The graphic is in the first post but here is a direct link: http://i.imgur.com/4c9QAum.jpg
Proof positive that the OP in this topic is full of crap. Shadows were the third most popular class in both leagues, only behind Ranger and Witch. If you would have been arguing that Templar and Duelist were the crappy classes, you might have had a point. But probably only for a few more weeks since we already know both those classes are getting reworked in the 1.3.0 tree.
That's a cumulative total and indicates nothing guy. I could roll 10000 level 2 anything and make it top that list. This is about performance and you contributed nothing to that.
OK, guy, explain how 10000 level 2's can skew numbers where the top 15,000 are level 79+?
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Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com
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Posted bymark1030#3643on Nov 22, 2014, 7:10:03 PM
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Any class can stack dps and die, hc performance on the ladder shows their real performance.
And yes, there are probably classes worse off than shadow, I said that in the OP.
Not necessarily. Hard Core performance just shows you are with the right group.
And if that player prefers a specific class, you will always see that class in the top ten.
Last edited by Starxsword#4109 on Nov 22, 2014, 7:37:35 PM
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Posted byStarxsword#4109on Nov 22, 2014, 7:11:33 PM
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