Reflect needs a rework

Mind posting your tree?

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mark1030 wrote:

So you spec an insane damage build that can kill stuff so far away you can't see it, and then complain about reflect?

This game has ways to deal with everything. You just need to use them. Mitigating physical damage projectile attacks isn't that hard. Evasion and Ondar's Guile. Armour raised with Granite Flasks of Iron Skin. Endurance charges and Immortal Call. An alternate attack or a proxy attack like totems or traps.

In your case there is one that's easier than all the rest (Assuming you are applying Puncture with a bow since you are hitting stuff offscreen). Point Blank. You will never kill yourself again when you Pierce and Chain your attacks to monsters off your screen.

Or you could just complain that it's a bad game that makes you be aware of what you're hitting.

You know what else is a way of dealing with everything?

Every three hours, have half the screen become an instant death zone without any warning that deals double_max_value() amount of damage to any character.

Saying "hey, this game has a means of dealing with everything" is stupid. Of COURSE the developer can do anything, you daft imbecile. The entire point is that a well-developed game can make the player feel challenged without needing to resort to "OH HEY YOU DIED IN ONE SECOND LAWLZ! NOOB!" mechanics.

And in PoE, these mechanics exist out the ass. Physical spells for eva. Both reflects. Voidbearers. All sorts of one-shot mechanics (E.G. rogue exile or uber-atziri flameblasts, which, by the way, have hit more than their fair share of people), and if all else fails, just utterly overtuned obscene monster damage because GGG wouldn't know good endgame tuning if it slapped them in the face with a wet trout.

That anyone who dies to reflect simply doesn't have enough defense is BS. Someone could go the acro/ondar's route and take all the life nodes in ranger and almost all in Shadow tree, wear a lightning coil with purity of lightning, and run immortal call, and STILL run into situations that they die in the blink of an eye. Maybe it's a certain map mod combination. Maybe it's a particularly bad combination of mods on a rare mob. But they happen. And it's those moments that happen rarely, but frequently enough that cause the game to be unenjoyable for a great deal of people.

And one of the biggest catch-alls that GGG depends on is "oh hey, if players really scale up their damage to have quick clear speeds, let's just say 'LAWLZ YOU DED, N00B, HA HA!'". Basically, have you ever seen the TV Trope "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies"? It's basically any situation in which the developers, for whatever reason, just want to kill the player(s). It's also the sign of the fact that the game designer is utterly incompetent that he couldn't find a creative way that feels fun to the players to have them fail, but instead says "screw you, you die because reasons".

And here's the thing--as the GM, or developer, you obviously can kill the players in an instant. Except the difference between a good game and a bad one is that when the player fails in a good game, they'll feel like their failing was because of their own choices. When they die in a bad game, it feels like a cop-out catch-all used by the game designers to ensure the player fails.

And I don't know about you, but when I use the Ondar's/Acro defense mechanisms, along with the standard immortal call setup, and still die in a split second, well...

THAT'S NOT MY DEFINITION OF FUN.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

That anyone who dies to reflect simply doesn't have enough defense is BS. Someone could go the acro/ondar's route and take all the life nodes in ranger and almost all in Shadow tree, wear a lightning coil with purity of lightning, and run immortal call, and STILL run into situations that they die in the blink of an eye.

No, what it actually means is that you've stacked up more offense than you can safely control.

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RogueMage wrote:

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

That anyone who dies to reflect simply doesn't have enough defense is BS. Someone could go the acro/ondar's route and take all the life nodes in ranger and almost all in Shadow tree, wear a lightning coil with purity of lightning, and run immortal call, and STILL run into situations that they die in the blink of an eye.

No, what it actually means is that you've stacked up more offense than you can safely control.

If the monsters have so much freaking life that you need to stack obscene offense to not get overwhelmed, what then?

Enemies in PoE have low HP.

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Wubbietail wrote:

Enemies in PoE have low HP.

How much HP does your character have?

Would you swap HP pools with a rogue exile if you were allowed to -- like;
You give them your 4000 health, and then -- you get their... like... 500 000 -- permanently?

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Wubbietail wrote:

Enemies in PoE have low HP.

Except for Rogue Exiles, all sorts of rare mobs, magic mobs, high-HP mobs (E.G. bears, colossal this or thats, etc.).

Try again, genius.

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Lord_Kamster wrote:

I also feel that reflect mobs need to have a large and noticeable, umistakable aura.

Go play d3. They carebeared this feature in like 6 patches ago and nerfed reflect to the ground on top of it.

Most players here are intelligent enough to deal with it thank god. first reflect crying thread I read here.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:
That anyone who dies to reflect simply doesn't have enough defense is BS.

lack of defense or leech pick one or both.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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Lord_Kamster wrote:

I also feel that reflect mobs need to have a large and noticeable, umistakable aura.

Go play d3. They carebeared this feature in like 6 patches ago and nerfed reflect to the ground on top of it.

Most players here are intelligent enough to deal with it thank god. first reflect crying thread I read here.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:
That anyone who dies to reflect simply doesn't have enough defense is BS.

lack of defense or leech pick one or both.

So providing information to your players is "carebearing"? More like good design. Also, what happens if it's a mob offscreen?

Actually, that gives me a good idea about how to tweak reflect:

Make it have a point blank modifier.

If you're wrecking it from offscreen, you're safe. If you can see it, at least you know now to go ham shooting it unless you get a little distance. No more "cheap deaths".

And regarding "not enough defense or leech", well, yeah, where exactly are you supposed to get leech from? If reflect one-shots you instantly, you'd need vaal pact or god gloves. And if you have vaal pact, you need 2.5x the leech to survive. So how much leech is enough then? If you want 10% vaal pact leech, do tell how someone's supposed to get 25% leech when everything gives 2% or so leech outside of Carnage Heart, which has its own drawback-so-huge-it's-junk-tier.

Oh, and one other thing--notice how this one freaking aspect requires someone's gear/defense/whatever to be a zillion times higher than all the other content?

That's called difficulty spikes and they are symptomatic of amateur developers.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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Lord_Kamster wrote:

I also feel that reflect mobs need to have a large and noticeable, umistakable aura.

Go play d3. They carebeared this feature in like 6 patches ago and nerfed reflect to the ground on top of it.

Most players here are intelligent enough to deal with it thank god. first reflect crying thread I read here.

"

IlyaK1986 wrote:
That anyone who dies to reflect simply doesn't have enough defense is BS.

lack of defense or leech pick one or both.

So providing information to your players is "carebearing"? More like good design. Also, what happens if it's a mob offscreen?

Actually, that gives me a good idea about how to tweak reflect:

Make it have a point blank modifier.

If you're wrecking it from offscreen, you're safe. If you can see it, at least you know now to go ham shooting it unless you get a little distance. No more "cheap deaths".

And regarding "not enough defense or leech", well, yeah, where exactly are you supposed to get leech from? If reflect one-shots you instantly, you'd need vaal pact or god gloves. And if you have vaal pact, you need 2.5x the leech to survive. So how much leech is enough then? If you want 10% vaal pact leech, do tell how someone's supposed to get 25% leech when everything gives 2% or so leech outside of Carnage Heart, which has its own drawback-so-huge-it's-junk-tier.

Oh, and one other thing--notice how this one freaking aspect requires someone's gear/defense/whatever to be a zillion times higher than all the other content?

That's called difficulty spikes and they are symptomatic of amateur developers.

what are you talking about there is nothing in this game that reflects over 25%. Even atziri clone which has hardest reflect in the game.

8% LL gem is not enough with only vaal pack because it's only 40% return. Warlords mark + LL gem + vaal pack is though. try it on her.

Keep in mind also block, evasion, armor all are called too on reflect. So like a max blocker doesnt even get "refelected" but 25% of hits he makes. Someone with Lightning Coil only gets "refelected" about 63-70% of the phy dam.

Thats why you never see a max blocker needing much LL.

It's a two prong approach mitgation and leech most people figured out. Except true amateurs such as yourself not GGG.