Reflect needs a rework

I told him how to fix it but someone people are hard headed and want to play their way and thats that. No point in saying anything else. When Highest DPS crit build in the game has zero reflect issues you know there are work arounds. Maybe I want to play with zero resits - i think elemental damage is stupid. Should I start a thread?

I just dont understand how one can deny that

1)reflect is a byproduct of (mostly) crit
2)crit cannot be 'balanced' by defense like it can in other games where there is a clear class distinction. any item in poe can be used by any character. any skill in poe can be used by any character. any node/passive can be used by any character.

therefore if you introduce a defense mechanic for offense that is lacking (ie, non-crit, melee) it can and will be picked up by the offender (crit, ranged)

its like PoE 101. its a vital basis for gameplay and buildcrafting.
its an axiom, it wont change. if you cant accept it, you should imo stop playing.

its not like in other games where there is class and/or role distinction and classes have attached skills and cannot use items that are pigeonholed for other classes.

I though reflect was unfair in open beta, and to some extent IT WAS back then. There had not been any perfected items crafted, we had no crafting benches, no crown of eyes, no atziri's acuity and of course, no trigger gems to get immortal call automatically. The only way back then to reacch 100+K DPS was abyssus, and you were already a glass cannon. Everything could kill you anytime, so getting reflected damage and one shotting yourself as well on top of it felt really unfair, and it was.

However, since all that crap were introduced in the game, it became triviliased, even for builds that have more than 200K DPS, so i guess it is an even nescesery mechanic nowdyas. That being said, i would definetely prefer the removal of instant reflected damage, along with instant leech of any kind.

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grepman wrote:

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

Personal attacks because the few idiots that support the inclusion of such a mechanic are the only reason it exists. Personal attacks because this company is run by a bunch of amateurs to exist solely for the purpose of comparing e-peen sizes. Personal attacks because at the end of the day, there are persons responsible for this game, and persons who provide the most vocal support of mechanics so utterly retarded that any company who sets out to make a game that's actually fun to play removed them.

I didnt want to address this, so Ill be brief without much preaching, but throwing insults left and right only detriments your actual points. calling people idiots just magnifies your inability to accept that others might have a different viewpoint than yours. now carry on.

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Want to know how to damp crits? Damage cap ala immortals in SC2. Gap closers. If characters are truly "glass" cannons, then they should allegedly die to something that won't kill other "tankier" classes. Such as anything that doesn't get one-shotted. Like Rogue Exiles, or bosses.

I didnt play SC2. Or SC. didnt really play any RTS games besides C&C series

with that said, heres a mistake of confusing what YOU think the game should be vs the game as it is.

anyone who played PoE knows that no-real-class system is both gift and the curse of PoE.
as such, you know it well that you cannot balance offense with a defense in PoE, and vice versa. this was a problem when melee was shafted, and its a problem in this case.

any class in PoE can have any defense and offense combination, provided gear and reasonable node distance. you can have cap block and run a crit setup. there are no real 'tanks' or 'glass cannons' in poe. with good gear and certain defenses you can be both or you can be none. glass cannons kinda exist mostly because of 1)people not having good enough gear to have both and 2)playing softcore where they can maximize the dps and not care about dying

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What the hell constitutes as ENOUGH defense in the reflect apologists' eyes, if you use a bow? Needing an immortal call setup, Ondar's+Acro, taking the vast majority of life nods in Ranger/Shadow areas, having to have 60+ life on all your non-weapon gear, and on top of that, needing to use a Lightning Coil? Because that doesn't sound like a "sufficient" defense build, when you're doing everything short of going halfway across the damn tree to the Scion life wheel to account for defenses, and then STILL having reflect be an issue.

reflect is a cap on crit, again. dont have much crit multi, you should be fine with ondars+acro+cwdt setup. you can 'cheat' and lower accuracy a bit.

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Oh, I know what the proper answer is--have a completely separate bow on switch with an elemental arrow attack (EG Lightning Arrow + LMP + Chain + LGoH + blood magic), never mind that it takes yet another freaking good item + yet another five links + yet another five skill gems.

you can just switch the main gem in some cases.

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Fast attack speed? Corrupting blood (as though lightning thorns wasn't enough), lightning thorns.
Chaos Inoculation? Blood Magic map mod.
Righteous Fire? Can't degen/degen cut in half.
Hybrid or Low-Life? Better have at least a Solars if not a Shav's.
Evasion character? Physical spells. (which is why that melee ranger guide thread is going to 120+ pages I believe--because eva+ondar's+70% block + max spell block may be the cheapest build in the game that doesn't have some weaksauce Achilles Heel).

It basically amounts to GGG saying "show me your build! Okay, now that I've seen it, here's the special type of mod I included in the game to kill you in a split second! Oh, there's no such mod? Looks like we missed a spot. Now it's in the game! Have fun dying in a flash ^_^"

every build has a specific weakness. Im not sure why thats a bad thing. sounds like a great thing to me. as an evasion character I always run with vaal grace and rumi's and watch out for EK and RT rogues/bosses

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Rather than have difficulty increase universally, instead, GGG basically encourages everyone to create an Achilles sort of character--a freaking GOD until they run across that one mod, one rogue exile (EG the exploding skeletons chick) that just drops them in a split second.

thats great in my opinion. why does your character has to be god ? hes an exile.

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Unfortunately, most game review websites don't actually read the feedback forums so as to know what downsides of the game to look for. Otherwise, this game would never ever win Game of the Year and would get mediocre reviews (at best) across the board.

most game reviewers dont play endgame when they make reviews. especially in a complex game like poe where you need to play a few months casually to fully understand the mechanics and buildcrafting and economy

I'm not saying that having no weakness is great. I'm saying that the way PoE encourages character building, it essentially wants every character to be Superman, with a zillion different types of kryptonites. It's not fun to be Superman, to just steamroll everything except for that one thing that just gimps you.

It isn't fun, and I find it exceptionally lazy design. If content is supposed to be difficult, then design difficult content. Don't just throw in the towel with endless amounts of cannon fodder white mobs and a few "drop you in a heartbeat" rare mobs with some ridiculous property (corrupting blood, reflect, lightning thorns, etc.).

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

It's not fun to be Superman, to just steamroll everything except for that one thing that just gimps you.

Nah, Superman's boring and OP. Much rather be Batman, Ironman, or Spiderman.

Funnily enough, in superman games -- kryptonite seems to be the most common element next to hydrogen and helium.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

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What the hell constitutes as ENOUGH defense in the reflect apologists' eyes, if you use a bow?

Ondar's+Acro, taking the vast majority of life nods in Ranger/Shadow areas, having to have 60+ life on all your non-weapon gear, and on top of that, needing to use a Lightning Coil? Because that doesn't sound like a "sufficient" defense build, when you're doing everything short of going halfway across the damn tree to the Scion life wheel to account for defenses, and then STILL having reflect be an issue.

you should be doing all of these things AND getting the scion life wheel. You arnt doing all of this? What kind of mickey mouse setup are you running over there? I think we are starting to understand the problems youre having with this game. Ok, if you are running a budget/low level setup, maybe you cant do ALL of this, but if you are running a budget/low level setup you arnt doing enough damage to 1 shot yourself on reflect. If you managed to get enough deeps to kill yourself and didnt put the same effort into defense then yes, you will die out there, because you don't have a balanced build.

This is my bow rangers gear and build from rampage, virtually all of this was from week 1 of the league, most of the items I had within the first 3 or 4 days. Second week I made a claw character and then I went off to play self found in the hardcore leagues because rampage just got silly. Ive played double reflect double boss jungle valley with this setup and it wasnt a problem.






ignore PoC gem, I rechromed my bow to use item rarity when I hit 90, it should be GGGGRR with weapon elemental damage as the 6th gem which can be swapped to life gain on ht for reflect/double reflect maps. A reflect mob in a normal map you just slam into the ground without a care, it might tickle a bit. Notice no crit multi gem in the tornado shot, absolutely unnecessary and would increase my risk of dying in a map by about 10,000%. If I had significantly worse gear, I would have significantly worse damage, and reflect would still not be an issue.

All that immortal call on damage taken stuff is bullshit imo, keep up endurance charges at all times, dont be pissing them away constantly when you get poked for 200 life by a random skeleton and your damage clock ticks over.

This is the self found beyond gear





absolutely terrible by comparison, tree is slightly different due to not finding a coil, reflect is still not an issue at all, because the damage is as mickey mouse as the gear. Its balanced, both sides of the coin are equally as shit as each other. I dont have shit armours, a lack of life nodes then a 400 dps bow with a 20/20 crit multi gem and every crit node on the tree. This setup runs maps fine, you dont need all that silly gear from the rampage build to play this game, you certainly dont need some 400k tooltip 3 inches away from mirror level I_NO godtier baller setup to get somewhere, you just need basic balance.

Just dont do double boss jungle valley if your gear looks like this because that is one thing that wont end well for you, reflect is fine though.

Neither of these setups die in endgame, at all. The rampage character died in a haku falling rocks mission and to vagan first time I encountered him, both while leveling. Reflect isnt an issue, Ive never been 1 shot by anything in maps, certainly not by myself.