Reflect needs a rework
" Fair enough but I have not heard of another way to challenge glass cannons in this thread. If you don't have some drawbacks (reflect) everyone will just stack ranged DPS killing diversity making game boring. Git R Dun! Last edited by Aim_Deep on Sep 28, 2014, 8:00:22 PM
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" I'm 100% phys so I don't bother taking Phase Acro, as elemental reflect is not an issue. " If I had a dime for every time someone said something bad about this game and got told to go play D3. Get some better arguments already. Also, this game already has something to this effect, called Nemesis Mods. Take a look, they appear highlighted in orange to help you notice when you're going to hit something with Corrupting Blood or Storm Herald. Unfortunately, in a game where there is perma-death and a 10% XP penalty, a mechanic that results in a one-shot to yourself even if you're paying attention (because seriously, offscreen deaths happen, and spell effects are out of control and cover all the mobs, and there is no loot filter so 90% of the screen is often covered in worthless trash item names) does not help make the gameplay any better. Notice I have asked for a rework and not a total nerf, and in fact my original suggestion was for something that would still result in deaths. I think the thread has gotten a fair amount of responses, including some good ones (I liked the Point Blank mechanic someone brought up). I assume by this point GGG has taken note of the thread, and while I don't expect them to reply, I hope they at least think about the issues brought up. |
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tsk-tsk, personal attacks already in full motion I see...
anyway, reflect is a somewhat wonky but still a way to deal with the power of stacking crit and crit multi. because otherwise, quite simply there wouldnt be any other builds. already crit is super popular to the point its asking for a nerf. but without reflect...crit would just be the go-to stat pretty much 100% of the time you get more damage, better leech (especially with good hp pool and vaals pact/acuity), better everything without reflect there isnt a single reason NOT to go crit. without reflect there isn't a reason to go totems or traps (which provide zero leech and no on-kill/on-hit effects) with crazy crit multi because you can just self-cast it with much more effect. reflect isnt some kind of a separate mechanic really, its effectively a crit dampener. it should be treated as such. | |
" GGG's focus is much more on competitiveness and balance and build-enabling than engaging mechanics. crit limiting with reflect is well in line with their philosophy. yeah its not imaginative and yeah its not terribly fun but it makes the system work. otherwise theyd have to redo all the crit values and maybe even crit mechanics. there are certain ground rules the game stands on, mechanically. tinkering with those basic things never did anything good so far. crit from the get-go was too good. a physical crit bypasses monster defenses, ele crit does status ailment. both kind of crits stun. crit provides a ton of life/mana to leech and if you have instant leech its ridiculously op. changing the way crit works should have been done earlier. however, early beta no one played crit builds and meta weren't there. GGG created a monster that isnt really tweakable without a HUGE rework. its easier and cheaper to keep reflect in there to synthetically cap crit than to completely re-work crit which is a huge job at this point I don't really see a huge problem there. | |
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its an affix on mobs, is inreased phys damage lazy? Is haste lazy? Is resists elemental damage lazy? Is powerful crits lazy? Its a small, simple little mechanic like every other rare mob affix that serves a purpose, its actually one of the most meaningful affixes that spawn on mobs outside of the nemisis pool, and more meaningful than a lot of them even. Not sure what people are expecting? An affix that takes 8 pages of equations and paragraphs to explain? Those lazy devs not building uber complex affixes, rly? Its an affix that is more troublesome the further your damage and defenses become unbalanced, its a complete non issue for balanced builds.
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@grepman. Not sure what you mean by early in beta. But critical has always been powerful. Remember diamond flasks? The original ones? WAY back when, crit, as with most other mods, could spawn on ALL gear. With insane values.
Need to find someone with a pic. | |
"open beta I meant. sorry for not specifying. I remember in early open beta everyone and their moms was playing a marauder and RT was the thing to go for, as well as BM the potential for crit was always there, but people starting up from scratch didnt gather gear or were able to sacrifice defensive odes for scattered crit nodes. right now its quite opposite. a lot of crit nodes are concentrated at one side, its easier than ever to get deep into maps and get better loot in general. crit on bows went up basically what Im trying to say is that in my opinion GGG shouldve nerfed crits even further but they looked at open beta and decided it was ok. well even before release hit, some very potent dagger crit builds started to emerge. people started seeing it was not ok, but the only thing GGG has done is nerf crit multi which was insane. and you can still get tons of multi easily today. | |
" Personal attacks because the few idiots that support the inclusion of such a mechanic are the only reason it exists. Personal attacks because this company is run by a bunch of amateurs to exist solely for the purpose of comparing e-peen sizes. Personal attacks because at the end of the day, there are persons responsible for this game, and persons who provide the most vocal support of mechanics so utterly retarded that any company who sets out to make a game that's actually fun to play removed them. Iron maiden in Chaos Sanctuary? Gone. Want to know how to damp crits? Damage cap ala immortals in SC2. Gap closers. If characters are truly "glass" cannons, then they should allegedly die to something that won't kill other "tankier" classes. Such as anything that doesn't get one-shotted. Like Rogue Exiles, or bosses. Except, oh, wait, those mobs kill ANYTHING in a split second, not just "glass cannons". At the end of the day, I suppose the question to be asked is this: What the hell constitutes as ENOUGH defense in the reflect apologists' eyes, if you use a bow? Needing an immortal call setup, Ondar's+Acro, taking the vast majority of life nods in Ranger/Shadow areas, having to have 60+ life on all your non-weapon gear, and on top of that, needing to use a Lightning Coil? Because that doesn't sound like a "sufficient" defense build, when you're doing everything short of going halfway across the damn tree to the Scion life wheel to account for defenses, and then STILL having reflect be an issue. Oh, I know what the proper answer is--have a completely separate bow on switch with an elemental arrow attack (EG Lightning Arrow + LMP + Chain + LGoH + blood magic), never mind that it takes yet another freaking good item + yet another five links + yet another five skill gems. See, Diablo 2 dealt with this in a better way--it was called "immunity from X", and even removed immunity from physical, since that basically just resulted in the game grinding to a halt for those without a secondary form of damage, and was a minor nuisance at best for anyone else. On the other hand, the mods in PoE? Fast attack speed? Corrupting blood (as though lightning thorns wasn't enough), lightning thorns. Chaos Inoculation? Blood Magic map mod. Righteous Fire? Can't degen/degen cut in half. Hybrid or Low-Life? Better have at least a Solars if not a Shav's. Evasion character? Physical spells. (which is why that melee ranger guide thread is going to 120+ pages I believe--because eva+ondar's+70% block + max spell block may be the cheapest build in the game that doesn't have some weaksauce Achilles Heel). It basically amounts to GGG saying "show me your build! Okay, now that I've seen it, here's the special type of mod I included in the game to kill you in a split second! Oh, there's no such mod? Looks like we missed a spot. Now it's in the game! Have fun dying in a flash ^_^" Rather than have difficulty increase universally, instead, GGG basically encourages everyone to create an Achilles sort of character--a freaking GOD until they run across that one mod, one rogue exile (EG the exploding skeletons chick) that just drops them in a split second. That's just shitty game design. Unfortunately, most game review websites don't actually read the feedback forums so as to know what downsides of the game to look for. Otherwise, this game would never ever win Game of the Year and would get mediocre reviews (at best) across the board. Last edited by IlyaK1986 on Sep 29, 2014, 1:27:24 AM
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So, you're upset because builds have weak spots? You're supposed to play your character *knowing* it's weakness. When that weakness arises, adjust accordingly. Some builds will just be bad builds too though.
The only one I agree with on that list btw, is blood magic map mod. That shouldve gone a long time ago. Don't understand your gripe about rogue exiles though. They're pretty balanced atm. | |
" I didnt want to address this, so Ill be brief without much preaching, but throwing insults left and right only detriments your actual points. calling people idiots just magnifies your inability to accept that others might have a different viewpoint than yours. now carry on. " I didnt play SC2. Or SC. didnt really play any RTS games besides C&C series with that said, heres a mistake of confusing what YOU think the game should be vs the game as it is. anyone who played PoE knows that no-real-class system is both gift and the curse of PoE. as such, you know it well that you cannot balance offense with a defense in PoE, and vice versa. this was a problem when melee was shafted, and its a problem in this case. any class in PoE can have any defense and offense combination, provided gear and reasonable node distance. you can have cap block and run a crit setup. there are no real 'tanks' or 'glass cannons' in poe. with good gear and certain defenses you can be both or you can be none. glass cannons kinda exist mostly because of 1)people not having good enough gear to have both and 2)playing softcore where they can maximize the dps and not care about dying " reflect is a cap on crit, again. dont have much crit multi, you should be fine with ondars+acro+cwdt setup. you can 'cheat' and lower accuracy a bit. " you can just switch the main gem in some cases. " every build has a specific weakness. Im not sure why thats a bad thing. sounds like a great thing to me. as an evasion character I always run with vaal grace and rumi's and watch out for EK and RT rogues/bosses " thats great in my opinion. why does your character has to be god ? hes an exile. "most game reviewers dont play endgame when they make reviews. especially in a complex game like poe where you need to play a few months casually to fully understand the mechanics and buildcrafting and economy |
