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For some elements of the implementation, it being 2014 means nothing. Physics is physics. GGG has not found a way to increase the speed of light.
There are many online games out there, none of which trust the client, and none of them have desync issues as severe as PoE. Much can be achieved with better prediction and masking code, and, of course, you have to design an online game like an online game, not like a single-player game.
That is the core of the issue. The solution to desync starts with how hits, stuns, evades, and collisions are calculated. The issue with GGG in general is that they design the game in complete disregard of the limitations of both the engine and the medium.
If the engine and the architecture cannot handle certain mechanics, these mechanics need to go. Instead, GGG just adds MORE mechanics and content that are incompatible with the goal to reduce desync. As a result, we now have more desync than we did a year ago (or rather, we have more content that makes desync noticeable).
My sympathy ended when they added the 60% fleet mods and the fractured seawitches. Before that, I made all the same excuses: small indie company, limited resources, trying their best, etc. No, they are not trying their best. They ignore the problem and don't seem to have any apparent intention of improving the situation. And now we get beacons ...
I can't disagree with that. Hit/Collision/Stuns play a huge factor in the problem since each of these can cause the client to get significantly out of sync and the difference between avoiding a hit and being stunned can be masked by the client being even slightly out of sync.
Last edited by Nubatron on Sep 22, 2014, 8:45:43 PM
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Posted byNubatronon Sep 22, 2014, 8:36:40 PM
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cant fix game too busy selling pets
Dogs Summoner - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/885199
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Posted byAmiagon Sep 22, 2014, 8:45:12 PM
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Star Citizen will destory all our computers and make us buy new ones .
Problem solved.
However i always +1 making a game better optimized
Just a sec let me grab a beer...@#*@ Ok how did I die this time
Learn the rules, it's the only way to exploit them.
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Posted bySirSidon Sep 22, 2014, 8:50:57 PM
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I can't disagree with that. Hit/Collision/Stuns play a huge factor in the problem since each of these can cause the client to get significantly out of sync and the difference between avoiding a hit and being stunned can be masked by the client being even slightly out of sync.
The game is super enjoyable for me when I play totem builds and summoners, because it bypasses the issues caused by hit/evade/stun/etc entirely. There is still desync (noticeable when I type /ooc and the loot on the ground shifts to a different location, or when I pick something up and the character walks to a spot half a screen away from here I see the item), but it has little impact on the actual gameplay experience.
When I play e.g. my puncture/SA ranger, I desync very frequently and notice it (rubberbanding). If it was my code, I'd consider starting with how hits are calculated, experimenting with a system where the outcome is determined at the beginning of the action, not at the end. But that's a sacrifice as it dumbs down combat (though I doubt most people would ever notice). I think PoE would make a perfect offline/SP game the way it is right now, but since latency is a simple fact that can't be avoided, I feel that it's just too ambitious.
But desync aside, there are other things that I don't fully understand. For example, why we can't have a weather toggle. Sure, it takes away from the immersion, but so do fps drops. I don't have that problem anymore since I set up a desktop as a dedicated gaming machine (essentially a console), but it had really troubled me when I was playing on a couple of gaming laptops (not office ones).
Anyway, I like PoE and I have plenty of respect for GGG and what they are -- and have been doing. I focus much more on the negative aspects of the game lately, which gives a bit of a distorted impression. If I "hated" the game, I'd not bother, and not be playing.
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Posted byMivoon Sep 22, 2014, 8:57:36 PM
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ZiggyD is the Labyrinth of streamers, some like it, some dont, but GGG will make sure to push it down ur throat to make you like it
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Posted bySexcalibureon Sep 22, 2014, 9:24:45 PMOn Probation
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POE 2 HYPEEEEEEEEEEE
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Posted bychoopk1993on Sep 22, 2014, 9:35:44 PM
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Oh god, here we go.
De-sync is NOT the same thing as latency.
Everyone has latency. Latency is dependent on the rate at which the electromagnetic waves that make up your data packets are transmitted and received by the client/server. This data is transmitted at the speed of light.
De-sync is a disagreement between the client and server of what that data is. And in the case of PoE, the server-state is always correct and will re-sync your client as necessary (or you force a sync with /oos). This process has NOTHING to do with physics and all to do with software implementation.
So how is it that every online game that I've ever played has literally no or minimal de-sync in comparison to PoE? Can you imagine if you loaded up the next AAA MMORPG and mobs and other players were teleporting around on your screen...and the dev company said, "Sorry about that! But there's nothing we can do because we need to prevent hacks/cheats!".
I'm thinking you are missing a fundamental piece of their implementation. Latency plays directly into desync. The client is guessing what is happening on the server while packets traverse the network. It cannot be verified until the data gets to server and actual server state is relayed back. If client is close, the client continues. If not, sync required.
Each frame that occurs on the client has the chance to get out of sync with the server. The number of frames that occur during the travel time between the server and the client increases as the packet transit time increases.
I think I'm the one that should be saying 'oh no, here we go again'. The development manifesto does a good job explaining exactly this concept. I'm only a satellite systems engineer, so me explaining it will leave much to be desired. The whole people skills from the 'Office Space'. :p
EDIT: Adding in thoughts from Mivo. The mechanics that can cause the major desyncs through a latent network could be a possible thing to examine if the problem is as prevalent as the forum makes it out to be. I happen to be on a nice rig in an well connected area in somewhat close proximity to the server (low latency, highly available, little network congestion) so I really do not see it like others do.
EDIT2: And just to beat a dead horse: the more latent the transport line is, even at the time of a resync..you may already be significantly out of sync with the server if something movement related occurs during that time period. Example: monster that charges during resync on server after the server state was sent to the client.
I don't know, nor care, how PoE's server software works.
It needs to be fixed.
[removed by support]
Last edited by Michael_GGG on Oct 5, 2014, 9:18:38 PM
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Posted byinDefon Sep 22, 2014, 9:52:30 PM
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I love it when people without a clue as to what they're talking about act like they know more than the people who are actually doing it. It's why I teach math, and why I love these forums.
Does that mean you +1 this thread or that we all have no idea what we are going on about?
In either case, Math Majors Unite!
And if you close your eyes, does it feel like your exalt almost hit this time~
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Posted byEternallighton Sep 22, 2014, 9:52:38 PM
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I love it when people without a clue as to what they're talking about act like they know more than the people who are actually doing it. It's why I teach math, and why I love these forums.
Does that mean you +1 this thread or that we all have no idea what we are going on about?
In either case, Math Majors Unite!
In light of me just shitting on the "satellite engineer" above... I suggest you change your major to something useful. Still math related...but something more, applied.
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Posted byinDefon Sep 22, 2014, 10:05:36 PM
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I totally agree, that this game needs optimalization..
But but both parts..
I mean. 1) desync, netcode optimalizatin.. maybe their arguments of fixing desync is right.. okay, so in this case is very importatnt to DO NOT add features which causes more desync. And if you add something, try to use "side way" to make it work ( for example.. remote control for strongboxes)..
2) game perforamce itself.. this game is really poorly optimised for multicore Cpu`s.. big fps drops and not playable some areas in average Pc..
I know that you have much work to do.. making new content ( like act 4 I hope).. but honestly I would rather wait to see that the game runs smoothly than playing content which I cant enjoy due to performance issues..
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Posted bySniper_of_Chesson Sep 23, 2014, 1:02:47 AM
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