Why would I ever not take Iron Reflexes as Evasion?

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Amiag wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

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Amiag wrote:

using a single situation in which evasion is better seems like a really weak argument.

block can work on spells with some gear investment
block is easier to stack since it has no diminishing returns
block requires a single equipment slot
block doesnt have any counter, "accurate" monsters or phys spells bypass evasion completely
block builds can STILL also use blind for evading

And yet it'a slways a single situation used to counter evasion as a solid defense.

So to go down your list fo simplicity

Evasion has dodge for spells, or can use block
Evasion doesn't have significant difficulty being stacked
Evasion is replacing equipment slots that otherwise would have armour (ie 0 slot real investment)
"Accurate" monsters don;t come anywhere close to bypassing evasion
Evasion builds STILL use block for blocking, and benefit from Dodge (which non EV block is going to have trouble utilizing well)

lol sorry but you are just completely biased

Not bias.

Your points 1 and 5 don't give a hall about evasion. Point two is blatantly wrong. Point three has absolutely nothing to do with evasion viability since it's replacing armour. Point 4 is assuming that accurate monsters significantly affect your chance to be hit (they don't).

3 of those points have nothing at all to do with evasion. If you're going to argue block is better than evasion at least understand that block has nothing at all to do with evasion in terms of itemization trade.

Evasion and Armour are trades. Block is something everybody gets because it's so powerful.

reaching 75% evade takes like 50k flat evasion (wild guess here, but its something on that scale)

are you really arguing that reaching cap block is not easier than that ?

yeah everyone uses block cause block is better period.

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Amiag wrote:

reaching 75% evade takes like 50k flat evasion (wild guess here, but its something on that scale)

are you really arguing that reaching cap block is not easier than that ?

yeah everyone uses block cause block is better period.

Why would you compare evasion to a defense that you're going to get maxed BEFORE you start focusing on evasion.

Evasion and block are not comparable defenses, they have nothing to do with each other.

FYI 75% evade is objectively better than 75% block if you don't also have spell block

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Autocthon wrote:

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Amiag wrote:

reaching 75% evade takes like 50k flat evasion (wild guess here, but its something on that scale)

are you really arguing that reaching cap block is not easier than that ?

yeah everyone uses block cause block is better period.

Why would you compare evasion to a defense that you're going to get maxed BEFORE you start focusing on evasion.

Evasion and block are not comparable defenses, they have nothing to do with each other.

FYI 75% evade is objectively better than 75% block if you don't also have spell block

Agree. Evasion is indeed objectively better than block (comparing Evasion to Attack Block).

1) Even if you do get hit through your Evasion, if that hit is a Crit, it will go up against your Evasion again for a chance to not crit.

2) Block is random. Evasion is not random. If you have a 50% chance to evade an enemy hit, then that enemy will miss exactly every other hit against you. With Block, you can have lucky and (more importantly) unlucky streaks.

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sircuddles wrote:

you're still going to get hit.

I never understand this stance. Yeah, even with 90% evasion you're going to eat 10% of the hits. But 90% of the hits that will one-shot you will one-shot you anyway with armor. With proper regen and leech, it doesn't matter that you take hits because you can top back off before the next one hits. Evasion gets a second roll against crits, which are probably the deadliest thing in the game. Evasion gets extra buffs like Ondar's, Acrobatics and Blind, and gets better use of Block.

Evasion's problem has never been getting hit. Evasion's problem has been physical spells (Phase Acro and End Charges are the best most Pure-Eva characters get) and people not understanding it's power.

I prefer Eva to Armor but I still say the best defense is the layered defense due to diminishing returns. When every attack goes through Evade->Block->Armor->End Charges->Potentially AA or MoM, you are considerably harder to kill than double the evasion/armor and neither of the other.

Face meet palm.

There's always gotta be some clueless guy who screws up comparisons.

Initial statement:

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If you want avoidance block is miles better than evasion.

Point out how evasion's avoidance is more powerful than block's avoidance because evasion's avoidance does double duty also preventing attacks.

Which is straight up correct, so it's time to trot out completely different points, completely irrelevant to comparing armor vs evasion.

Who cares about shields for evasion vs armor? Armor guy can have a shield, evasion guy can have a shield. There's no tradeoff there.

The only relevant point to this thread is that if you think high block is a great defense against attacks, you must concede high evasion is even better, because it does double duty against the most dangerous attacks

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I am loving the evasion build with my own scion crit tornado shot build. I just need to stack a bit more life, was feeling cocky and started running some maps. Max resists and 4k hp, still got one shot by the Flame Blast templar exile. Curse you RNG, why didn't Phase Acrobatics kick in :(

Other than that, smart flask usage and kiting is a LOT more fun than facetanking with an armor build.

Heh I'm not up to top level maps but I can do 72-73 maps so far with ease with only 2300 hp and not even capped fire/cold res using evasion.

The thing about armor is that in PoE you spend 90% of your time fighting trash mobs, and armor is better against trash mobs so you get the impression that armor is better than evasion because that's the most common experience.

But trash mobs aren't what kills you, and how well a defense does against stuff that isn't the threat in the first place is almost completely irrelevant.

Only time/reason to not use IR, as a evasion character, is when you dont grab extra exasion from passives as the evasion from dex does not factor into iron reflexes.