I haven't used the term P2W as well. You can't win with something of that amount of influence. But it affects the gameplay unlike any other microtransaction.
The argument of keeping more things and hoarding more items is unappealing and irrelevant to even discuss it.
And I can see that it's used quite often by the stash tab buyers.
Let me draw a hyperbole...
Knives aren't useful at all, if someone who doesn't have a knife suddenly gets it, he wouldn't know what to do with it, and would try to cut concrete and metal instead of groceries and some other appropriate things.
Why would someone suddenly start hoarding all sorts of items if he would have more stash tabs if muling is as efficient as having stash tabs?
"You are paying for convenience", of course, but let us pay for convenience and buy something else, like an Alchemy orb.
Purchasing stash tabs is purchasing for the luxury of not having to create mule accounts.
Purchasing a single currency, even a shard, is P2W. It takes time to find the item and sell it for the currency. This completely removes that.
Thats easy. I'd get the item for sale from my stash. Because id use mules for stuff I want to "hoard" for myself and future builds. If I have something valuable enough to trade, I'd keep it in my stash. It doesn't take much room unless you have a lot of those types of items. And if you do, your price is too high because you should be selling them quickly.
But if I did have an item to trade on a mule, I'd open another instance of PoE, log in with that character, and whisper the other player with a link of the item followed by a party invite. If anybody thinks they'll lose a trade over that minute you're logging into the other character, they haven't traded much at all. I don't trade much, but most of the time I want to buy something, I whisper that player and have to wait for them to get out of a map. Same if somebody whispers me...usually they have to wait a few minutes for me to get out of a map. I have taken too long to get out of a map before and the other person got the item from somebody else. Now that I think about it, it'd be quicker to trade from a mule than to wait the time it takes to finish a map. I guess that isn't true if you're just sitting in town waiting for somebody to whisper you. But I like to spend most of my time actually playing.
Oh, so you don't intend to hold a non-specified shop (that sells all sorts of items, not just the 1-2 square items).
My price is my price, I'm in no hurry in selling something in the same day or the next one. I usually lower the price if I don't sell it for more than a week.
Again, I shouldn't be forced to lower my price to sell it ASAP just because I have no room, that's even worse than my "time" saving argument, it's a straight up currency loss.
It's not about losing a trade, it's about losing time having to deal with a shitty process.
You've skipped some actions before inviting to a party, and since I can see that you have no idea how it's really like to play without stash tabs, I will write down the steps:
1. Player XYZ whispers you and wants to know the price of an item X
2. I ask him to wait up, I'm in a map, I'll look it up afterwards
3. Map is finished, I need to open up the PoE website, locate the item on my mules
4. Whisper the player XYZ about the item, he agrees with the price
5. Player XYZ sends the party invite, I decline and I need to tell him that I'm going to my mule so we can trade
6. Trade is done and I can switch character back and continue playing
I'll disregard the fact that when I alt+tab from PoE and I come back, the FPS drops by roughly 50% for a minute or so, the only game where that happens.
Which means that players with lower PC specs are suffering here too, not everybody can open up a web browser and a high demanding game, I can, but I'm just saying and you can ignore this, but know that this exists.
Now compare that process with the one with stash tabs. How much time is saved with each trade? Not much, but noticeable, plus the whole shitty process becomes a simple thing and much less frustrating.
I've always kept maps and jewelry in my stash, at least those things went smooth.
So, now we can get back to my original post here, what do you think, how much would an Alchemy orb cost?
Oh and, I will ignore this guy who should read before he posts.
Thats easy. I'd get the item for sale from my stash. Because id use mules for stuff I want to "hoard" for myself and future builds. If I have something valuable enough to trade, I'd keep it in my stash. It doesn't take much room unless you have a lot of those types of items. And if you do, your price is too high because you should be selling them quickly.
But if I did have an item to trade on a mule, I'd open another instance of PoE, log in with that character, and whisper the other player with a link of the item followed by a party invite. If anybody thinks they'll lose a trade over that minute you're logging into the other character, they haven't traded much at all. I don't trade much, but most of the time I want to buy something, I whisper that player and have to wait for them to get out of a map. Same if somebody whispers me...usually they have to wait a few minutes for me to get out of a map. I have taken too long to get out of a map before and the other person got the item from somebody else. Now that I think about it, it'd be quicker to trade from a mule than to wait the time it takes to finish a map. I guess that isn't true if you're just sitting in town waiting for somebody to whisper you. But I like to spend most of my time actually playing.
Oh, so you don't intend to hold a non-specified shop (that sells all sorts of items, not just the 1-2 square items).
Not true. You just made that up. If it's valuable, it will sell, whether it's 2 squares or 8 squares. If it's not valuable, it won't sell, therefore it is a waste of space to put in a shop.
"
My price is my price, I'm in no hurry in selling something in the same day or the next one. I usually lower the price if I don't sell it for more than a week. Again, I shouldn't be forced to lower my price to sell it ASAP just because I have no room, that's even worse than my "time" saving argument, it's a straight up currency loss.
And how many items do you find that never sold, that you've been wasting shop space for? Because I've got plenty. I listed them for the very reason you are stating. The majority of stuff in my shop has been there for months. If I didn't have the space, I would have vendored it. It will all end up getting vendored anyway, since there is a relatively small list of what people want. This is the first league where I've had a shop. Now I know for future leagues what is crap and what people buy, so I won't waste my time putting up things nobody wants.
"
It's not about losing a trade, it's about losing time having to deal with a shitty process.
You've skipped some actions before inviting to a party, and since I can see that you have no idea how it's really like to play without stash tabs, I will write down the steps:
1. Player XYZ whispers you and wants to know the price of an item X
2. I ask him to wait up, I'm in a map, I'll look it up afterwards
3. Map is finished, I need to open up the PoE website, locate the item on my mules
4. Whisper the player XYZ about the item, he agrees with the price
5. Player XYZ sends the party invite, I decline and I need to tell him that I'm going to my mule so we can trade
6. Trade is done and I can switch character back and continue playing
I'll disregard the fact that when I alt+tab from PoE and I come back, the FPS drops by roughly 50% for a minute or so, the only game where that happens.
Which means that players with lower PC specs are suffering here too, not everybody can open up a web browser and a high demanding game, I can, but I'm just saying and you can ignore this, but know that this exists.
1. same
2. I clear an area and get to a safe spot. I open 2nd instance of the game and the xyz website to check price.
3. skipped, because I can have 2 accounts logged in at same time
4. same
5. alt-tab to alt account and invite player. make trade.
6. alt-tab back and continue.
Including problems your computer has is not part of the game so I'll skip that issue.
"
Now compare that process with the one with stash tabs. How much time is saved with each trade? Not much, but noticeable, plus the whole shitty process becomes a simple thing and much less frustrating.
I've already addressed that by saying I wouldn't sell things off of mules, but even if I did, I think my 6 steps would be faster than yours.
"
So, now we can get back to my original post here, what do you think, how much would an Alchemy orb cost?
If we're talking time spent vs value, then obviously having fewer tabs would be quicker since you're doing less interaction with your stash.
"
Oh and, I will ignore this guy who should read before he posts.
Satisfied I read your posts now?
Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com
Thats easy. I'd get the item for sale from my stash. Because id use mules for stuff I want to "hoard" for myself and future builds. If I have something valuable enough to trade, I'd keep it in my stash. It doesn't take much room unless you have a lot of those types of items. And if you do, your price is too high because you should be selling them quickly.
But if I did have an item to trade on a mule, I'd open another instance of PoE, log in with that character, and whisper the other player with a link of the item followed by a party invite. If anybody thinks they'll lose a trade over that minute you're logging into the other character, they haven't traded much at all. I don't trade much, but most of the time I want to buy something, I whisper that player and have to wait for them to get out of a map. Same if somebody whispers me...usually they have to wait a few minutes for me to get out of a map. I have taken too long to get out of a map before and the other person got the item from somebody else. Now that I think about it, it'd be quicker to trade from a mule than to wait the time it takes to finish a map. I guess that isn't true if you're just sitting in town waiting for somebody to whisper you. But I like to spend most of my time actually playing.
Oh, so you don't intend to hold a non-specified shop (that sells all sorts of items, not just the 1-2 square items).
My price is my price, I'm in no hurry in selling something in the same day or the next one. I usually lower the price if I don't sell it for more than a week.
Again, I shouldn't be forced to lower my price to sell it ASAP just because I have no room, that's even worse than my "time" saving argument, it's a straight up currency loss.
It's not about losing a trade, it's about losing time having to deal with a shitty process.
You've skipped some actions before inviting to a party, and since I can see that you have no idea how it's really like to play without stash tabs, I will write down the steps:
1. Player XYZ whispers you and wants to know the price of an item X
2. I ask him to wait up, I'm in a map, I'll look it up afterwards
3. Map is finished, I need to open up the PoE website, locate the item on my mules
4. Whisper the player XYZ about the item, he agrees with the price
5. Player XYZ sends the party invite, I decline and I need to tell him that I'm going to my mule so we can trade
6. Trade is done and I can switch character back and continue playing
I'll disregard the fact that when I alt+tab from PoE and I come back, the FPS drops by roughly 50% for a minute or so, the only game where that happens. Which means that players with lower PC specs are suffering here too, not everybody can open up a web browser and a high demanding game, I can, but I'm just saying and you can ignore this, but know that this exists.
Now compare that process with the one with stash tabs. How much time is saved with each trade? Not much, but noticeable, plus the whole shitty process becomes a simple thing and much less frustrating.
I've always kept maps and jewelry in my stash, at least those things went smooth.
So, now we can get back to my original post here, what do you think, how much would an Alchemy orb cost?
Oh and, I will ignore this guy who should read before he posts.
1. You're assuming that you don't already have the mule account up and running either in the background or on an alternate computer.
2. Path of Exile is one of the least demanding games I know. I was running ten instances of it at a time and power-questing them to get gems. Not sure how you'd think it's a high demand game if the problem is your PC. If you have trouble alt-tabbing to a webpage, then your PC is the problem. Don't whine about it here.
Not true. You just made that up. If it's valuable, it will sell, whether it's 2 squares or 8 squares. If it's not valuable, it won't sell, therefore it is a waste of space to put in a shop.
Please do explain to me how would you hold a shop with 4 tabs. Which in fact would be ~2 tabs, since you have to use space for currency/maps/flasks/gems.
Or, show me that shop.
"
And how many items do you find that never sold, that you've been wasting shop space for? Because I've got plenty. I listed them for the very reason you are stating. The majority of stuff in my shop has been there for months. If I didn't have the space, I would have vendored it. It will all end up getting vendored anyway, since there is a relatively small list of what people want. This is the first league where I've had a shop. Now I know for future leagues what is crap and what people buy, so I won't waste my time putting up things nobody wants.
That's not an argument at all, I will remind you of my knife hyperbole. Lets not base this discussion on monkeys with ~27 IQ.
Please stop with the hoarding argument.
"
1. same
2. I clear an area and get to a safe spot. I open 2nd instance of the game and the xyz website to check price.
3. skipped, because I can have 2 accounts logged in at same time
4. same
5. alt-tab to alt account and invite player. make trade.
6. alt-tab back and continue.
Including problems your computer has is not part of the game so I'll skip that issue.
So it requires multiple clients running? Even worse, I'd have to buy a new PC for that, as well as the majority of players, given that 80%+ of the playerbase are experiencing severe FPS drops in party runs (yes, pulled the percentage number out of my ass).
Nevertheless, you still wasted more than double time to trade this way, it's just smoothed out by the ability to run multiple clients.
Stash tabs save time, and time is money, let us buy the money, for the convenience.
"
I've already addressed that by saying I wouldn't sell things off of mules, but even if I did, I think my 6 steps would be faster than yours.
A shop of 2 tabs, epic and a joke.
Yes it would be faster, but still nowhere near as fast as having more stash tabs.
"
If we're talking time spent vs value, then obviously having fewer tabs would be quicker since you're doing less interaction with your stash.
Obviously, and there would be no shop, which means that the amount of currency would be a lot lower, which is a P2W, which is even worse than my point.
Anyway, this is going nowhere. I don't even know why am I debating on this with the one who has probably bought dozens of tabs, of course that you'll defend it by any means.
1. You're assuming that you don't already have the mule account up and running either in the background or on an alternate computer.
2. Path of Exile is one of the least demanding games I know. I was running ten instances of it at a time and power-questing them to get gems. Not sure how you'd think it's a high demand game if the problem is your PC. If you have trouble alt-tabbing to a webpage, then your PC is the problem. Don't whine about it here.
1. Mule account? How does that make anything faster than having mules on the main account? Steps are the same, it just takes even more time to switch between clients.
But yes, I am assuming that you don't have multiple clients just for trading, because people with stash tabs don't have.
2. Good, our experiences differ.
I don't have a problem with my PC or alt-tabbing to a webpage, you have troubles with reading, why have I even responded to you...
1. You're assuming that you don't already have the mule account up and running either in the background or on an alternate computer.
2. Path of Exile is one of the least demanding games I know. I was running ten instances of it at a time and power-questing them to get gems. Not sure how you'd think it's a high demand game if the problem is your PC. If you have trouble alt-tabbing to a webpage, then your PC is the problem. Don't whine about it here.
1. Mule account? How does that make anything faster than having mules on the main account? Steps are the same, it just takes even more time to switch between clients.
But yes, I am assuming that you don't have multiple clients just for trading, because people with stash tabs don't have.
2. Good, our experiences differ.
I don't have a problem with my PC or alt-tabbing to a webpage, you have troubles with reading, why have I even responded to you...
Bye
1. The fact that it's basically automatically sorted for you?
Let's say you have 200 stash tabs and you have them colored and sorted perfectly. The only problem is that you don't remember exactly where everything is.
Buyer PMs you and wants an item. You get to town. You ask him which specific item he wants, and then you have to go through, say, 15 stash tabs of items looking for the exact item he wants. You find it after a few minutes since you have the luxury of labeling each tab.
You buy something from someone using mule accounts. You tell him exactly what you want, and he either has one or two accounts for unique items. You want a unique item. He then logs into the account and searches for it. Not only does he have the luxury of naming the acocunt after what he puts on it, he can put items on specific characters with specific names for specific sales. He loads the unique account, loads the low level unique sales, and has the item in a slightly shorter time than using the stash tabs.
A few advantages using mule accounts offers:
-the ability to have your character already loading the area you need to be in
-the ability to continue to spam trade or talk about transactions while loading or searching
-the absence of chat while looking for items (a huge win for people constantly trading)
"
tinko92 wrote:
I'll disregard the fact that when I alt+tab from PoE and I come back, the FPS drops by roughly 50% for a minute or so, the only game where that happens.
"
tinko92 wrote:
I don't have a problem with my PC or alt-tabbing to a webpage, you have troubles with reading, why have I even responded to you...
...a problem with my reading? I think the problem is that you are trying to troll and failing, hard.
Tinko, how do you figure it takes twice the time to trade with a mule? You don't have to leave the party you're in, saving time in going back to the party). You don't even need to leave the area you're in. If it takes you twice as much time to use the alt-tab button, that's your computer's problem, not the games.
And to illustrate my point, I checked your shop thread last updated Feb 21, 2014. The highlights:
Buyout spoiler: 32 verified items
Weapons: 28 verified items (14 of those 8 slot 2-handers)
Chests: 7 verified items
Shields: 24 verified items
Helms: 23 verified items
Gloves: 6 verified items
Boots: 1 verified item
Belts: 12 verified items
Quivers: 5 verified items
Rings: 18 verified items
Amulets: 30 verified items
gems: 9 verified items
So for the last 4 entire months, you've had 195 items sitting in your stash (and who knows how long before that - thread created in October 2013). You want us to believe that putting those items in there and when you eventually take them out will take less time than somebody with only a few tabs filled with items people actually want to buy? Maybe you don't call that hoarding, but I don't know what else you'd call almost 200 items collecting dust in your stash. That's the items you are trying to sell., not even counting the items you made a single threads for in the selling forum. I can only imagine how much time you spend at your stash with items you want to keep.
For reference: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/532044
Guild Leader The Amazon Basin <BASIN>
Play Nice and Show Some Class www.theamazonbasin.com
Last edited by mark1030#3643 on Jun 17, 2014, 1:30:41 PM
1. The fact that it's basically automatically sorted for you?
Let's say you have 200 stash tabs and you have them colored and sorted perfectly. The only problem is that you don't remember exactly where everything is.
Buyer PMs you and wants an item. You get to town. You ask him which specific item he wants, and then you have to go through, say, 15 stash tabs of items looking for the exact item he wants. You find it after a few minutes since you have the luxury of labeling each tab.
You buy something from someone using mule accounts. You tell him exactly what you want, and he either has one or two accounts for unique items. You want a unique item. He then logs into the account and searches for it. Not only does he have the luxury of naming the acocunt after what he puts on it, he can put items on specific characters with specific names for specific sales. He loads the unique account, loads the low level unique sales, and has the item in a slightly shorter time than using the stash tabs.
A few advantages using mule accounts offers:
-the ability to have your character already loading the area you need to be in
-the ability to continue to spam trade or talk about transactions while loading or searching
-the absence of chat while looking for items (a huge win for people constantly trading)
"
tinko92 wrote:
I'll disregard the fact that when I alt+tab from PoE and I come back, the FPS drops by roughly 50% for a minute or so, the only game where that happens.
"
tinko92 wrote:
I don't have a problem with my PC or alt-tabbing to a webpage, you have troubles with reading, why have I even responded to you...
...a problem with my reading? I think the problem is that you are trying to troll and failing, hard.
How is it automatically sorted out?
If you use a 200 tab example, then you should use 400 mules as an example.
Naming characters as per items in his inventory is not working in practice, which shows me just enough that you have no idea what you're talking about.
If I need to clarify this, do tell, but I'll be extremely disappointed to do that and will probably ignore you as this is as trivial as it gets.
- what? loading an area I need to be in? Do expand this advantage
- laugh at the second advantage, plus only available if one has 2+ PC's
- absence of chat? Do expand this as well
Yes you have a problem with reading, there nothing trolling here, in fact, after I explain this trivial thing I'll probably ignore every single post from you.
I've bolded an important thing in the quote of mine, feel free to check it out and read properly before accusing me of trolling.
"
mark1030 wrote:
Spoiler
Tinko, how do you figure it takes twice the time to trade with a mule? You don't have to leave the party you're in, saving time in going back to the party). You don't even need to leave the area you're in. If it takes you twice as much time to use the alt-tab button, that's your computer's problem, not the games.
And to illustrate my point, I checked your shop thread last updated Feb 21, 2014. The highlights:
Buyout spoiler: 32 verified items
Weapons: 28 verified items (14 of those 8 slot 2-handers)
Chests: 7 verified items
Shields: 24 verified items
Helms: 23 verified items
Gloves: 6 verified items
Boots: 1 verified item
Belts: 12 verified items
Quivers: 5 verified items
Rings: 18 verified items
Amulets: 30 verified items
gems: 9 verified items
So for the last 4 entire months, you've had 195 items sitting in your stash (and who knows how long before that - thread created in October 2013). You want us to believe that putting those items in there and when you eventually take them out will take less time than somebody with only a few tabs filled with items people actually want to buy? Maybe you don't call that hoarding, but I don't know what else you'd call almost 200 items collecting dust in your stash. That's the items you are trying to sell., not even counting the items you made a single threads for in the selling forum. I can only imagine how much time you spend at your stash with items you want to keep.
For reference: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/532044
Because I've done trading with mules and from stash, it's that simple to figure out.
The advantage of not leaving the party stash tab buyers also have, as well as leaving the area, and it requires 2 client running.
It does not take me twice as much for alt-tabbing, I've explained thoroughly where does the mule trading lose time compared to stash tabs. And it looks like I'm writing to walls, or to say better, people who have already set their minds even before the discussion, which also leads to me leaving here for good, as it's pointless to discuss anything with you for that reason said.
But before, let me address the next thing...
That's an illustration of anything in this discussion? Are you serious?
I've sold thousands of items from October, and I would've been selling those ~200 items if I was playing regularly and being online on poe.xyz.
I was selling 10+ items daily, if I was online enough.
Do you realize how ridiculous you look right now?
So no, that is not hoarding and no, those aren't the items I'm trying to sell, those are items I was trying to sell, past tense.
Of course that they are now collecting dust, so what?
There are no items that I'd want to keep for myself other than the gear my characters wear, flasks, currency and maps.
Why haven't you explained your idea of a shop with 4 tabs? Or showed one? Rhetorical question, I'm just entertaining myself.
If stash tabs don't save time, it wouldn't be the primary income for GGG, and you wouldn't see a huge majority of top players who have bought the stash tabs.
That's as clear as a day, and only stash tab buyers can act as ignorant as you on this matter, it's being seen for a long time now, it's not a surprise.
Do note, I'm fine with stash tabs being sold and I'm just putting the exact time-saving scenario with orb selling.
I just detest the hypocritical stash tab buyers and when I see GGG marketing their game being free-to-play with nothing being able to buy with real money that affects the gameplay.
You've just went right down to the bottom in my eyes, and I'll try to stay away from interacting with you, as well as the poster above.
If you use a 200 tab example, then you should use 400 mules as an example.
Naming characters as per items in his inventory is not working in practice, which shows me just enough that you have no idea what you're talking about.
If I need to clarify this, do tell, but I'll be extremely disappointed to do that and will probably ignore you as this is as trivial as it gets.
- what? loading an area I need to be in? Do expand this advantage
- laugh at the second advantage, plus only available if one has 2+ PC's
- absence of chat? Do expand this as well
Yes you have a problem with reading, there nothing trolling here, in fact, after I explain this trivial thing I'll probably ignore every single post from you.
I've bolded an important thing in the quote of mine, feel free to check it out and read properly before accusing me of trolling.
The bolded parts show you are only here to cause problems and bicker with people regardless of who is correct and without regard to any content of any message.
You'll find you won't last long on the forums with this attitude. Nobody puts up with shit.
