Why is the economy on this game broken and how to solve it

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Mivo wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Nice doomsaying, but the game is doing fine. It just isn't for everyone, which actually makes it good, because when developers try to make games for everyone, they miserably fail.

This sounds a bit like rationalizing to me, though. PoE was never for everyone, and it was always niche, but it is losing players even within that narrow market segment. If numbers drop further, there will eventually be the point where it affects development, so lack of popularity does affect those who don't really care if 1000 or 20,000 people play.

'F2P game on Steam' isn't exactly a narrow market segment :P The main reasons why the numbers are dropping are a) Some people who try it (aka Steam f2p hoppers) don't like it and never will, they are not the target audience and b) people are burned out, they've seen most of the new content and most sane people can't play stupid ARPGs for months on end, instead they quit and come back when there's a league reset and/or new content (see D2 player fluctuations, exactly the same).

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Mivo wrote:

Maybe it does already? There haven't been new development members in a while, and major features like the new trading interface, are no longer even talked about. New MTX do seem to make a good portion of the new stuff we see or hear about. (That is my perception, and it may well only be a communication issue.)

We get frequent content and balance updates, much more frequent than in D3 btw. By your logic, Blizzard is pretty much dead.

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Mivo wrote:

I cited neutral numbers that aren't biased or altered, and you can interpret them yourself. I'm not actually saying the game is dying. I, however, disagree with the view that the game doesn't have issues that need addressing, or that these issues don't affect the game's player numbers. (And Chris did mention increasing drop rates for uniques and making it easier to 6L stuff, so he either sees these as issues or he responds to players being dissatisfied.)

The numbers are worthless without interpretation. The Steam:non-Steam client ratio went from 50:50 (at the beginning) to 30:70 or so, which just shows that Steam numbers aren't a very reliable indicator of the game's health. We also don't know how financially dedicated the fanbase is, but that is the most important number in all of this. PoE is dead if it has a million players but nobody supports it. PoE strives if it has 10k players that frequently throw a lot of money at it. Judging by the shiny and expensive titles in these forums, I'd say the fans are quite dedicated. I also never said the game has no problems, I just said that many problems are on the player's side, and I stand by that.

inb4 Bex bans me because I'm again off-topic =_=

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Xavderion wrote:

The numbers are worthless without interpretation. The Steam:non-Steam client ratio went from 50:50 (at the beginning) to 30:70 or so, which just shows that Steam numbers aren't a very reliable indicator of the game's health.

That is just an assumption, or non-verifiable information, though, and I don't share that belief. The Steam numbers are just numbers, and they are the only objective data we have access to. I can't bring myself to believe that the trend for the overall development should not only not be the same, but even the opposite. To me, that makes no sense (even less so if you consider that Steam's market share keeps increasing).

But I do believe that the relative decrease in numbers may well be less dramatic for the non-Steam client, even though I don't doubt for a second that there are now fewer non-Steam players than there were in October and March (and fewer in March than in October).

But anyway, I dont actually want to keep nurturing a negative view. Overdoing that doesn't help the game, either, and negativity doesn't "feel good". I just believe the game could be more successful if some issues received more and faster attention, without dumbing it down to the D3 level. If I wanted that, I'd play D3.

You're right that we don't have access to financial data, either. While more players likely means more revenue, or potential revenue, freeloaders are also more probable to leave or quit quickly. They have some value as content for paying members, and as advertisement, but beyond that they are not very meaningful.

(Are we off-topic? This is still in context of the economy and how it affects the game. If it is deemed off-topic, it isn't deliberate on my end.)

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Mivo wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

The numbers are worthless without interpretation. The Steam:non-Steam client ratio went from 50:50 (at the beginning) to 30:70 or so, which just shows that Steam numbers aren't a very reliable indicator of the game's health.

That is just an assumption, or non-verifiable information, though, and I don't share that belief.

No, Steam numbers are not objective necessarily representative data.
No, we don't know the ratio is 30:70, or even close.
No, we don't know the game is failing (except by our own highly personal standards).
No, we don't know the game is succeeding (except by our own highly personal standards).

We don't know shit.
Welcome, my friends, to the land of assumption and non-verifiable information. I hope you enjoy your stay.

Oh, and by the way: at the end of the day, the only standards which matter to you in determining if the game is a success or a failure are your own highly personal standards.

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Mivo wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

The numbers are worthless without interpretation. The Steam:non-Steam client ratio went from 50:50 (at the beginning) to 30:70 or so, which just shows that Steam numbers aren't a very reliable indicator of the game's health.

That is just an assumption, or non-verifiable information, though, and I don't share that belief.

But Chris indirectly said it. Of course he might be lying, but I don't believe that.

I prefer using the Steam version.
I prefer using Steam for everything.
I buy CE for many games and then I buy the same game on Steam again(if it's not steamworks ofc).
I prefer Steam.
Steam.

I see the steam graph reflecting users that left because of all the increases to progression for the average Joe. I mean, they all saw it was supposed to be a hardcore ARPG, and probably left out of disappointment that the game was being made easier by the patch.

I can bet with the increase to rare and uncommon unique drops we will see even more player loss through the steam graph!

Take heed GGG, for the prophet "Steam Graph" speaks to you!

Edit: +1 steam.

Meh I personally don't use steam and why do people care about all this? I don't get it. A game is only dead when no one plays it and I see plenty of people on for the hours and hours I play daily. The economy isn't broken and the game isn't dead move along nothing to see here :)

And to the guy above me, I'm kinda looking forward to a little buff in drop rates. I've been playing for 1.5 years daily for roughly 4-6 hours a day and have never found a shav or kaoms or soultaker or any other top tier unique. I don't agree with messing with fusings for a 6l though but Id love to find some of these items so that I could try even more builds. Ill never spend 50+ex on any item because frankly I'll never have that kind of currency so it would be much nicer to just find it. Plus I recently learned that I absolutely love hc and some of those items make hc builds viable. Oh and if your wondering why I'll never have that kind of currency it's because I'm to lazy to play the trading game and that's pretty much the only way to amass a ton of currency....rngesus frowns apon me as well but I don't care I still love this game more than any other game on the market to date and will continue to support it for as long as I'm playing it. You wont find better devs than ggg! You may not agree but to each his own. Happy hunting and stay safe oh and run for your life if you see that ek spider lol!!

P.S. Invaders + strongboxes was the most fun I've had in this game in along time. I hope they both make it into the core game!!

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chromafunk wrote:

I can't sell any of my good rare items.

People only lowball on everything because they haven´t got any money to afford things.

#1 - when I took a look at your shop, I noticed most thing don't have a price on them. "Offer" has been a bad business model for over a thousand years.

#2 You aren't selling anything like a Picasso, Van Gogh or of a rarity that someone simply must have despite the price.

#3 If the market price for a slice of bread was $10,000 and you price your slice of bread at $8,999 would you expect it to sell? There are entire companies worth millions of dollars that go out of business every year because they overestimate what their goods are "worth".

#4 Econ 101 - Supply and demand. If the demand isn't there, you need to drop prices to create demand. You potential buyers are sending you a clear message.

#5 I hate to say it, but even as a pack rat who saves mediocre items, you should probably vendor a lot of what you are trying to sell. An item with 2 so-so resists, no life, no links, and just OK stats is rarely worth an alch, let alone a chaos.

#6 Pricing and buying habits at the beginning or ending of a league are different, and both different from the middle of a new league. If this lull in sales is recent, than perhaps it is just due to the upcoming league change (even if the items are in standard).

#7 - Good luck with your shop, and I mean this sincerely. Different people view different items differently. One man's junk is another man's treasure, as they say.

Well you either lower your prices and sell your items or live long enough to see yourself buy more stash tabs.

Fixed. The economy is not broken, I was doing it wrong. I finally discovered how to do really well by tweaking my behaviour. I made almost 40 exas of the "junk" I had on my shop on the last two days, that is an answer to the guy up there that said I had only crap on my shop.

Thread closed, thank you for your [Removed by Support] I have discovered how to sell my OK items fast and well priced by myself.


See you around.