Would anyone be against selling chaos orbs on GGG's shop? (For convenience)

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

The first of far too many 'whaaa look what Garena did GGG!' threads, I'm afraid to imagine.

I think those complains are justified. When GGG said that PoE will never be Pay2Win in any way, they didn't say that this only applies to their own servers.
As long as the game Garena is running has the name "Path of Exile", such microtransactions make a lie out of GGG's promise.
Just my 2 cents...


@ everyone flaming the OP: I'm pretty sure this thread was meant to be sarcastic...

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Something I think people are failing to grasp here is that Grinding Gear Games doesn't own Garena. While Chris almost certainly has some pull and some push, ultimately the relationship between the two companies will be a game of compromises.

Chris himself stated that they DO have the authority to stop things like this if they want to.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

And by anyone's standards *But GGG's*, what Garena has done is well below the 'pay to win' line. I am sure this severity on GGG's behalf is something the Garena folks wrestle with regularly. Unlike GGG, they didn't make the game. They just want to make money off it.

The thing is, one major reason why i like PoE are exactly those high standards that GGG applied when it comes to the Pay2Win topic.
Whenever i payed a little money to support the game (and get additional stash tabs to hoard even more), i did it with the thought "It's so awesome that this game is REALLY free, without all this P2W stuff, i wanna support this business model!".

Now that GGG allows Garena to ignore this high standard, i'm just very disappointed...

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malvar wrote:

Whenever i payed a little money to support the game (and get additional stash tabs to hoard even more), i did it with the thought "It's so awesome that this game is REALLY free, without all this P2W stuff, i wanna support this business model!".

If you feel so strongly about "P2W stuff", then you probably shouldn't have bought stash tabs. They are as much or as little "P2W" as a paid skill tree reset would be.

Stash tabs are optional, since you can "just" maintain multiple accounts (but then transferring items is not trivial), but so would be a paid skill reset (you can just start a new character).

If one is fine, the other is, too. If one is "P2W", so is the other.

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Mivo wrote:

If you feel so strongly about "P2W stuff", then you probably shouldn't have bought stash tabs. They are as much or as little "P2W" as a paid skill tree reset would be.

Stash tabs are optional, since you can "just" maintain multiple accounts (but then transferring items is not trivial), but so would be a paid skill reset (you can just start a new character).

If one is fine, the other is, too. If one is "P2W", so is the other.

Now, please explain to me in which way those stash tabs allow me to aquire something ingame that i would else have to pay currency for!
I haven't tried yet but i'm pretty certain that i wouldn't be too successful in trying to convince someone selling an item to just give it to me because i have stash tabs...

I have just recently respecced a character and once i was done, my currency was gone and i couldn't buy any good gear at first. While i couldn't pay for the items i wanted with stash tabs, i'm certain that the 40 regrets i had to spend for the respec would have been accepted as payment...

And about the saved time: If i was running 2 accounts, i might actually save time by just alt-tabbing whenever i want to trade instead of having to leave my map and travel to a1n.
Of course, having a big stash has its upsides but so does running a second client only for trading.
The only upside of spending regrets instead of buying a respec with real money is not having to spend real money and that's were i draw the line between real free to play and pay to win.

nice one

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

I think they could jeopardise their relationship with Garena by putting their foot down. Have you even stopped to think what's at stake here? The magnitude of the two companies' intentions? Like I said, GGG doesn't own Garena.

If you can accept that fact, then you can accept that ultimately, what Garena do with their version of PoE is up to them. There may be repercussions, and there may be limitations, but any old idiot can see that there has to be compromise.

And if you want to see this as GGG 'selling out' (since they obviously SOLD the licensing rights to Garena), so be it. Personally I see it as them letting a less-than-shiny-but-not-outright-EVIL company use their product to make a buck.

So be it. If the money from that license sale goes back into the PoE GGG want to make, the PoE that we want to play, that remains about as non-pay-to-win as a f2p can be, that's something I can get behind as a supporter.

Honestly, i can't argue with that. My problem is mostly that Chris tried to justify what Garena did there, saying that even though GGG themselves wouldn't do it, it doesn't hurt the game.

I can see why it would be a bad idea if he openly condemned what Garena does there, but still this doesn't change the fact that GGG first established a high standard when it comes to "ethical microtransactions" and now they say that it's ok to not live up to it.

Maybe this only shows that the idea of basing a game's financing completely on the player's good will just doesn't work out in reality but wouldn't that be even more of a reason to be sad and disappointed? I never said, i was mad at GGG, just that i'm really unhappy about these developments.

I take your point that i have to be reasonable and try to understand that Chris and his team have to do what they have to do. Understanding why they're doing it doesn't mean i have to like it though...

How is anyone even discussing this nonsense thread?

"Hey, how about you can buy the game's base currency used for all trades for $$$? It is totally not p2w though cause I conveniently forgot to mention you can just buy other stuff with it."


P.S.: Maybe GGG should have not gotten into bed with Garena then if they cannot control their actions. Reflects badly on PoE as a game since people usually are bad at distinguishing stuff...
Anyone in the gaming business knows what Garena is and that they always turn their games into full p2w. Heck, you can buy yourself out of a ban for cheating. 5$ and bans are lifted. Called "Unban cards". That company is as shady as it gets.

Also answers the question what GGGs intentions are really about for all those idealists still thinking they make their personal Nerd dream come true with this game. It is about the money. The exclusive catering to the 1% of the playerbase dumping 1000s of Dollars into the game instead of supporting the broad "Average Joe" playerbase that might be willing to invest 10-50$ strongly hints at this, the deal with Garena proves it.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

And by anyone's standards *But GGG's*, what Garena has done is well below the 'pay to win' line. I am sure this severity on GGG's behalf is something the Garena folks wrestle with regularly. Unlike GGG, they didn't make the game. They just want to make money off it.

Like many have said here, Garena is essentially selling Regret Orbs. Or if you distillate it, Garena is selling the time to farm those Regret Orbs. So by the same logic, if you're going to sell 1 orb as an MTX, why not just sell all orbs? After all, you're just selling the time to farm them right? At what point would it be game-breaking?

A person who would've otherwise used 100+ Regret Orbs to respec can now save those Regret Orbs to buy something else. That gives a clear advantage to those with $$$ to spend on respecs.

And yes, I know you think Garena's PoE isn't the "real" PoE. But really, Garena's PoE is still, for all intents and purposes, 99.9999% PoE. The only difference is that "their" PoE is hosted on their servers. Any decisions made on their PoE reflects poorly on both versions. It doesn't matter if the MTX won't be making its way to GGG's servers. The fact that GGG allows this MTX to exist on a licensed copy of Path of Exile speaks volumes on GGG's stance on P2W. That is to say, as long as GGG makes money.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

And if you want to see this as GGG 'selling out' (since they obviously SOLD the licensing rights to Garena), so be it. Personally I see it as them letting a less-than-shiny-but-not-outright-EVIL company use their product to make a buck.

GGG has plainly stated on their overview page that they will never endorse P2W. If Garena is selling respecs -- essentially Regret Orbs -- why not sell all items as MTX? After all, the money will go back to GGG to "improve the game" right? What Chris is doing right here is double-speak. He's being a hypocrite, simply because he'll be making money indirectly off of this MTX.

I would quit.

I only played this game for 2 weeks , even can see this would be TERRRIBLE ...