Poe XYZ Broke the trade

"

D6vil wrote:

I dont understand why players want to resist trading...its part of the game.

In my case, it's the forced interaction and how disruptive it is. I work in a job where I deal with people all day long, so in my recreation time I prefer to not have to interact with random people. It's why I eventually quit MMOs. In an MMO, this is expected, but in an ARPG it is really not, or shouldn't be.

Another issue is how inefficient it is. With map invading, it's really foolish to trade with someone before your map is done, so they have to wait. Or you have to wait. If you only have a couple hours to play, standing around and doing nothing is frustrating. Not to mention the number of people who'll try to scam you.

I don't mind that trading is in the game. My complaint is how essential it can become, and how much the game is designed around it even if you don't aim to get the best of the best items.

"

Mivo wrote:

"

D6vil wrote:

I dont understand why players want to resist trading...its part of the game.

In my case, it's the forced interaction and how disruptive it is. I work in a job where I deal with people all day long, so in my recreation time I prefer to not have to interact with random people. It's why I eventually quit MMOs. In an MMO, this is expected, but in an ARPG it is really not, or shouldn't be.

Another issue is how inefficient it is. With map invading, it's really foolish to trade with someone before your map is done, so they have to wait. Or you have to wait. If you only have a couple hours to play, standing around and doing nothing is frustrating. Not to mention the number of people who'll try to scam you.

I don't mind that trading is in the game. My complaint is how essential it can become, and how much the game is designed around it even if you don't aim to get the best of the best items.

I still don't get what your saying though...You only trade if you want to progress faster than RNG allows. If you want to avoid trading, then you need to be satisfied with slow gameplay (being stuck at merciless act1-2 and tickling the monsters). You consciously choose to not tickle monsters so you trade. It doesn't say, you cannot go through this portal into the next act until you trade.

TL;DR You choose to prefer not to trade - no interaction is forced as gameplay doesn't prohibit you to move forward if you don't do it.

"

D6vil wrote:

I still don't get what your saying though...You only trade if you want to progress faster than RNG allows.

I take it you don't play maps?

Quest content is OK, since progression only depends on your gear & skill (kinda). But endgame progression depends also on luck and amount of orbs you pour into rolling maps.

Regular gameplay does not provide you with enough orbs, you need to sink into maps to be able to progress, therefore you trade for them.

(not to mention, if you want some specific GG uniqe, trading is the only serious option you have)

"

Veruski wrote:

edit: even Chris himself has talked a crazy lot about how much an AH hurts ARPGs and how he wouldnt put one in PoE because it takes the fun away from farming items.

Was that before or after he called the economy the most important aspect in POE?

If gear upgrades actually dropped in a reasonable time frame I wouldn't see a need to buy them, but since the game is balanced around trading it's either trade or quit.

Designing a game balanced around trading but making the process of trading as inconvenient as possible is, for lack of a better word, retarded.

"

THEHORNEDRAT wrote:

Competition and free market. Is good.

"

D6vil wrote:

I dont understand why players want to resist trading...its part of the game.

Without it, how will your 2nd or 3rd characters be fun without needing to grind all over again...

people don't resist trading.

smart players who have seen this cycle happen before resist the trade based economy in an ARPG - they know where it leads

because inevitably the company balancing the game starts balancing it with the expectation that you trade

then the game becomes more about trading than it does killing monsters and dungeon crawling.

its something people who have "been there, done that, seen that" worry about because we know it has an incredibly detrimental long term effect on the game

"

Vomitorivm wrote:

"

THEHORNEDRAT wrote:

Competition and free market. Is good.

"

Holocaustus wrote:

"

Veruski wrote:

edit: even Chris himself has talked a crazy lot about how much an AH hurts ARPGs and how he wouldnt put one in PoE because it takes the fun away from farming items.

Was that before or after he called the economy the most important aspect in POE?

If gear upgrades actually dropped in a reasonable time frame I wouldn't see a need to buy them, but since the game is balanced around trading it's either trade or quit.

Designing a game balanced around trading but making the process of trading as inconvenient as possible is, for lack of a better word, retarded.

Yeah, it's a pretty bad move. Not only do the crappy roll tables kill a rewarding gameplay experience, it also creates a market for rather mediocre budget gear, bloating the whole system. Would be much better if trade was the go-to for your Kaom's and Shav's, but you'd rarely buy anything mid-tier, as you could actually drop it through playing. D3 had the same issue, though their legs were garbage. D2's economy was great in this regard. You never had to touch it to have an enjoyable game experience, but if you wanted something amazing, it was there for a price.

"

Holocaustus wrote:

If gear upgrades actually dropped in a reasonable time frame I wouldn't see a need to buy them, but since the game is balanced around trading it's either trade or quit.

But they do. It is just that the notion of upgrades has completely changes since XYZ came in.

"

Veruski wrote:

smart players who have seen this cycle happen before resist the trade based economy in an ARPG - they know where it leads

because inevitably the company balancing the game starts balancing it with the expectation that you trade

then the game becomes more about trading than it does killing monsters and dungeon crawling.

its something people who have "been there, done that, seen that" worry about because we know it has an incredibly detrimental long term effect on the game

I completely agree with this.
You can only slow that cycle by making trading harder (the lack of trading tools is a benefit) but it will happen sooner or later. XYZ is making that happening faster.

The solution that Marvel Heroes (and now D3 copied) uses make trading near to worthless. But to me, that's not a solution either. You fall in the complete opposite territory where there is no potential for trading or sharing items with friends. Thus making it a pure solo game.

D2 was fine because there was less people playing (there is a lot more gamers nowadays) and there was very minimal trade facility. You had to be an hardcore forum user to trade efficiently.

"

D6vil wrote:

"

Mivo wrote:

"

D6vil wrote:

I dont understand why players want to resist trading...its part of the game.

In my case, it's the forced interaction and how disruptive it is. I work in a job where I deal with people all day long, so in my recreation time I prefer to not have to interact with random people. It's why I eventually quit MMOs. In an MMO, this is expected, but in an ARPG it is really not, or shouldn't be.

Another issue is how inefficient it is. With map invading, it's really foolish to trade with someone before your map is done, so they have to wait. Or you have to wait. If you only have a couple hours to play, standing around and doing nothing is frustrating. Not to mention the number of people who'll try to scam you.

I don't mind that trading is in the game. My complaint is how essential it can become, and how much the game is designed around it even if you don't aim to get the best of the best items.

I still don't get what your saying though...You only trade if you want to progress faster than RNG allows. If you want to avoid trading, then you need to be satisfied with slow gameplay (being stuck at merciless act1-2 and tickling the monsters). You consciously choose to not tickle monsters so you trade. It doesn't say, you cannot go through this portal into the next act until you trade.

TL;DR You choose to prefer not to trade - no interaction is forced as gameplay doesn't prohibit you to move forward if you don't do it.

Nope.

There is a unacceptable disparity between self sufficient solo play compared to the trade and party rolocopter trivialization game.

There's a good chance that if you're 100% solo selfound that RNG will not only slow your progression but may decide to halt it altogether.

Yes RNG can say you don't go through the next portal until you trade.The act boss being the portal and his gear check decides if you progress or not.In fact the whole game past act 1 merciless is mostly gear check that says yes or no for progression,especially in hardcore.

You only get so many orbs and chances at required gear before your prompted by the game itself to move on by losing your area/level orb rate and if/when that happens it's grinding trivial content for god knows how long and still not likely to find/craft a required upgrade for the gear check.

Correct,solo self found play is consciously chosen by the player but after reassurances back from earliest closed beta that solo play would be a viable alternative for players it has in actual fact turned out mostly an obnoxious exercise with very little enjoyment or satisfaction attached to it.

Having said that,it's GGG game and they call the shots,not me. lol =)