Brian's Feedback to Looting (quote from reddit)

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JoannaDark wrote:

You know - it kinda bothers me that anyone from GGG would post there, and not here, in relation to this overly exploded issue.

But w/e.

i think the main reason is the discussion over there is way more mature than what it is here.

all the insults and flamewars here are really getting ridiculous - from both new and old players.

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i already planned that a melee char would be my next toon, but now i'm feeling forced to do it so that i can group with other people.

You don't need to. Just use the skill Leap Slam (aka "Loot Leap") on any char and you can ninja any item you want and the other players can do nothing to stop it unless it drops right at their feet.

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x0pht wrote:

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JoannaDark wrote:

You know - it kinda bothers me that anyone from GGG would post there, and not here, in relation to this overly exploded issue.

But w/e.

i think the main reason is the discussion over there is way more mature than what it is here.

all the insults and flamewars here are really getting ridiculous - from both new and old players.

Actually, i find this responce to be the core of the debate.
This is from the mod burnoutbrighter, thats probably been reading many critisizm for FFA loot in many threads.
If the mods, devs and the whiteknights are all defending this FFA loot with tooth and nail despite obvious flaws.... i dont know how *any form of debate* can function.

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BurnOutBrighter wrote:

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Omnivore61 wrote:

What I don't understand is how supposedly hardcore players and the devs can support this FFA looting mechanism when it is so wide open to griefing that it isn't even funny. The timer is a strawman, as is named loot, totally irrelevant. FFA is just begging for griefer/ninja/jackass players to exploit.

Worse, the game provides all sorts of interesting skills and equipment that helps the ninja. Spells like ice wall, skills like leap slam, supports like chance to flee, movement speed boosts, etc. Add in a bit of antisocial creativity and I'll steal you blind. I'll loot chests screens away, drag mobs on top of you to keep you busy, beat you to the loot ever single time unless it drops on top of you, and block you from getting to anything I want. It is completely stupid.

I'm a retired programmer, a former developer, and have some experience in game design and programming; if I set out to deliberately design a system to be easily exploitable by griefers I could not do better than FFA. It is a masterpiece of antisocial engineering.

Yup, that's the point.

The pace of the game is already the slowest I've experienced for an arpg. Quite clearly it is hard to adjust to but it's fine after a while, still I don't bother to kite any mobs because most attack animations for skills are long and root you in place and you can't cancel them. The looting system is catered to the more hardcore players but that's why so many people complain about it because there will always be more casual players in any game really. Finding the balance would be the hardest choice for you GGG but I hope you find it and implement it and get good feedback on it. I myself personally vote for an instanced looting system just like Diablo 3 has. Don't really see the problem in it, although your looting system runs great with the feeling and theme of Wraeclast. These kind of games are all about the loot, and taking away the majority of your gamers from this great loot you find due to several problems(no, not internet connection although that does sometimes happen) is a flaw in itself.

Pretty much a copy and paste from the last time I heard them talk about their stance. But here's a response:

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Fundamentally, POE is a game about tough choices, about making your way in a harsh world with few initial resources. This is a theme that runs through the whole game, from the starting areas, to the cryptic early NPCs, to the lack of respecs, and the quickly ramping difficulty. Having quasi-FFA loot definitely falls right in line with the general cutthroat, competitive aesthetic of Wraeclast.

This is what I'm seeing: "Instanced loot would conflict with lore". My response is: So what? This is a game, and fun should always come first.

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having played Diablo 2 for many many years.

"gentleman's rules"

Having played Diablo 2 for many many years myself (and other internet-based games), I've found that nobody that you meet on the internet is to be trusted. Gentleman's Rules? Sure, we can agree on them, but they'll be broken the first time anything truly valuable drops. What are you gonna do, kick them? Too late, damage is done. Write them down so you can avoid them? Extra work on my part and no skin from their backs. Cry on the forums? They drink your delicious tears. You think they'll eventually get a reputation and people will avoid them? That never happens. There's no unity on the internet.

Honestly, the years and years of Diablo 2 experience don't seem to have taught you much about people on the internet.

The only thing we can do is attempt to create a group just for people who are honest and can follow these Gentleman's Rules. Basically ostracize ourselves from the community at large. And it doesn't always work because there's no telling who's really trustworthy before letting them in the group. As you might imagine, organizing and maintaining something like this is a lot of extra work and dedication, and why should we have to segregate ourselves from the greater community when you could save everybody the trouble and make an optional instanced loot setting.

It's much easier to just play solo. That's something I'll have to do until the time comes when I feel like finding one of those groups on the forums.

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You want to just be moving along all the time, going from pack to pack, blowing stuff up. The last thing you want to be doing is standing around every time some stuff dies, waiting for all your little bars to decay.

The current system is just as detrimental. In this system, you may have to run into packs of enemies in order to snag what you want before the timer goes out, potentially dying in the process. At least you'll have to stop contributing to the fight in order to make a B-line for your loot. I imagine the loss of a party member would be of more detriment. But do you know what would solve both problems? Instanced loot. If it's your loot, you don't have to rush to get it. And if somebody else got loot you needed, guess what? You won't know, so no slowing down the pace of the game. (or if your party member knows you need it and notices the loot and wants to give it to you, you get a nice surprise!)

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When you play in a group with completely player-bound, invisible-to-others loot like Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2, you really get the feeling that you're playing in a bubble.

You want to know what makes me feel like I'm playing in a bubble? Avoiding other players so I don't run the risk of missing any loot. Or always playing with the same people from the same group on the forums all the time because nobody else can be trusted.

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And for the record, while I support having instanced loot, I don't think it would be a good idea to replace the current system with it. Instead I'd prefer it if the party leader had options and could choose whether the party's loot will be FFA loot or Instanced loot. If we simply replaced the FFA system with an instanced loot system, then we would be damaging the game for the people who prefer FFA loot. Having options should satisfy both crowds.

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StarlightGamer wrote:

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When you play in a group with completely player-bound, invisible-to-others loot like Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2, you really get the feeling that you're playing in a bubble.

You want to know what makes me feel like I'm playing in a bubble? Avoiding other players so I don't run the risk of missing any loot. Or always playing with the same people from the same group on the forums all the time because nobody else can be trusted.

Guess you should learn to be a little less shellfish. It's a group effort with group benefits.

Also, if you play hardcore past normal mode or actually reach a respectable level, that "diving into mobs to get loot" bullshit almost ceases to exist. You will learn.

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Wouldn't mind seeing 2 seconds added on Yellow and Orange Loot, and removing names altogether.

agreed, no need to implement a new looting system. I feel that the timer just needs to be lengthened.

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StarlightGamer wrote:

This is what I'm seeing: "Instanced loot would conflict with lore". My response is: So what? This is a game, and fun should always come first.

This is what I'm seeing: "This game doesn't fit my definition of "fun" so its broken"