AoE + Leech utterly buggered in 1.1

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Artanthos wrote:

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0versky wrote:

Well at least fire spell has Arctic Armor, lmp/gmp spell in other department are fucked. Take example of GMP Freezing Pulse. On 1 target only, since the 5 projectiles hit almost simultaneously, leech don't stack, so you're leeching 8.8% with rate of 1 out of 5 proj. On the other hand, all 5 projectiles reflect back at you for 18% each.

Thus assuming 75% cold res, the ratio of (leech/dmg reflect after mitigation) per interval of time is (8.8)/(18*5/4) = 39%. Utterly horrible lol. So even if you're just hitting 1 target, you will always lose life in an ele reflect map. Not to mention if you're hitting more than 1 mob, at almost the same time with freezing pulse proj speed. Leech rate stays almost the same but reflect dmg 3-fold for just 3 mob.

Surely die, no way about it, unless you can somehow keep Saph Flask up always. Even then going from 75->85 res is still a net lose of life even with max life leech gem.

82% resist should be considered the baseline for any elemental spell caster. Between the relocation of Elemental Adaptation and Purity, it is trivial to obtain.

Well you need 90% cold res to breakeven ( not losing life ) when hitting 1 mob . For a pack of 2 monster only you need 95 ( or double reflect). It's not like casters have great life regen. If your out of cold flask and there's a pack ahead, it's basically 1 portal for refilling flasks/abandon map.

They did mention something about LL for spells/elemental. Maybe there'll be a LoH for spells as well?

I don't think my Incinerate build will work as well as it does now after the LL nerf.

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vaiNe_ wrote:

With all the confusion surrounding new leech mechanics, I find it strange that a dev hasn't elaborated on how leech will function with AOE attacks. It is easily the biggest change with this patch.

QFT !

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Vipermagi wrote:

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demivion wrote:

when i'm hitting a pack of mobs very few of them are getting hit that much, most are only getting hit by 1-2 streams... however no matter how many mobs I hit I will only be leeching back the HP from one singlular, teeny, tiny, incinerate at a time

Which is no different from how it works currently. It's just that those tiny moments of Leech aren't stacking in duration, but ticking down simultaneously.
You might notice against Bosses, but your Damage per Hit should be pretty impressive there regardless due to how Incinerate works. That More Damage is pretty good.

Cast Speed will also make your Leeching more efficient (less time between Hits). Maybe give that a shot some time.

it makes all the difference in the world

let me put it this way, each leech amount, from each incinerate "hit" is on the order of ~27 HP leeched

for refrence i have 3000 hp so i can leech at most 600 hp per second, my LL gem is 9% and my Incinerate does ~300 damage per "hit", I cast 7 times per second, with GMP. For the sake of simplicity...

In a 1 mob single target melee scenario:

before: 27 HP per hit * 7 hits per second * 5 hits per mob = 945 HP leeched over 1.5 seconds (600 hp/s leech)

Now: 27 HP per hit * 7 hits per second * 1 hit per mob (GMP no longer counts as the hits are simultanious) = 189 HP leched over 0.315 seconds. If you'll note, my cast speed is no longer enough to keep up with the leech rate, so for every second of casting, i'll only get .315 seconds of leeching, aka teeny tiny 27 hp leeches every .14 seconds that last .045 seconds each.


It gets exponentially worse in a multi target scenario. Say 5 mobs, each getting hit by 3 beams:


before: 27 HP per hit * 7 hits per second * 3 hits per mob * 5 mobs = 2835 HP leeched over 4.725 seconds (600 hp/s leech)

Now: 27HP per hit * 7 hits per second * 1 hit per mob * 1 mob (Simultanious hits no longer count) = 189 HP leched over 0.315 seconds



so this is pretty much a 93% reduction in the amount of HP I leech back on multi target scenarios. And It's a 99% reduction in the amount of time I actually spend getting HP returned to me.



Edit: I do also use Cybil's paw, which by itself is not enough to survive on

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0versky wrote:

Well you need 90% cold res to breakeven ( not losing life ) when hitting 1 mob . For a pack of 2 monster only you need 95 ( or double reflect). It's not like casters have great life regen. If your out of cold flask and there's a pack ahead, it's basically 1 portal for refilling flasks/abandon map.

Which is, again, why I was advocating Cybil's Paw. It is LGoH, not LL. It will continue to work while hitting multiple opponents.

It is only viable for spells such as Incinerate or Firestorm with a large number of small hits, but it is an option.

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Artanthos wrote:

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0versky wrote:

Well you need 90% cold res to breakeven ( not losing life ) when hitting 1 mob . For a pack of 2 monster only you need 95 ( or double reflect). It's not like casters have great life regen. If your out of cold flask and there's a pack ahead, it's basically 1 portal for refilling flasks/abandon map.

Which is, again, why I was advocating Cybil's Paw. It is LGoH, not LL. It will continue to work while hitting multiple opponents.

It is only viable for spells such as Incinerate or Firestorm with a large number of small hits, but it is an option.

Making a unique mandatory for survival doesn't seem like a good move. (Although I really like Cybil's)

I didn't read this thread. Leech prior to 1.1. was too strong. It is mandatory. Nerfing it seems like right thing to do. But GGG should also reduce % of monster reflect. It's a terrible decision to just nerf life leech while leaving reflect the way it is.

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_Elminister_ wrote:

I didn't read this thread. Leech prior to 1.1. was too strong. It is mandatory. Nerfing it seems like right thing to do. But GGG should also reduce % of monster reflect. It's a terrible decision to just nerf life leech while leaving reflect the way it is.

heh. Just because a mob exists doesnt mean you need to kill it. And just because a reflect rare is in the middle of a large pack doesnt mean it will always remain so.

yeah, too bad that we haven't those spawning red bubbles like in d3 (lol)