AoE + Leech utterly buggered in 1.1

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Nephalim wrote:

Ordinary players will generally not do enough damage to instantly gimp themselves vs reflect unless their defensive is severely under built. This is with regards to just vaap pact, the leech stacking nerf is a bit harder to gage.

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Nanaya_Kiri wrote:

I'm more concerned about the nerf to AoE leech than the one to VP-reflect, since it's an issue that affect a far greater percentage of players (who don't have enough damage to insta-kill themself on reflect and use leech to survive the mob).

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Bars wrote:

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Nanaya_Kiri wrote:

I'm more concerned about the nerf to AoE leech than the one to VP-reflect, since it's an issue that affect a far greater percentage of players (who don't have enough damage to insta-kill themself on reflect and use leech to survive the mob).

The wording of the patch notes is extremely unclear. I somehow doubt they would actually make LL not work on multiple targets, that would reduce build variety to zero. Welcome to path of exile, pick your character: Witch (summoner), Shadow (trapper), Templar (totems), Marauder (again totems), Ranger or Duelist (fuck my life), Scion (what's the point?).

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Bars wrote:

The wording of the patch notes is extremely unclear. I somehow doubt they would actually make LL not work on multiple targets, that would reduce build variety to zero. Welcome to path of exile, pick your character: Witch (summoner), Shadow (trapper), Templar (flame totem), Marauder (flame totem), Ranger or Duelist (fuck my life), Scion (what's the point?).

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shroudb wrote:

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Bars wrote:

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Nanaya_Kiri wrote:

I'm more concerned about the nerf to AoE leech than the one to VP-reflect, since it's an issue that affect a far greater percentage of players (who don't have enough damage to insta-kill themself on reflect and use leech to survive the mob).

The wording of the patch notes is extremely unclear. I somehow doubt they would actually make LL not work on multiple targets, that would reduce build variety to zero. Welcome to path of exile, pick your character: Witch (summoner), Shadow (trapper), Templar (totems), Marauder (again totems), Ranger or Duelist (fuck my life), Scion (what's the point?).

i still don't know how much it will affect average builds.

let's say a reave-melee damage-multistrike-added fire-BM

let's give it a reasonable 10k pdps. and let's say that this guy has 5k hp. so 1k leech/sec max.

assuming 6aps, that is 1700 damage/hit. Let's also say that this char has 8% LL.

0,08*1700= 136 hp.
this means that he leeches 136hp in 0,136secs (he attacks every 0,16secs so no problem with stacking there).

the net total is 816hp/sec instead of 1000.

if he had more pdps, like 15k, or more leech like 10%, he would still be capped at 1000hp/sec as he was before.

what he actually loses is the regeneration AFTER the fight is over, or when he is not hitting stuff.

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Bars wrote:

Let's also say he has to skip all phys reflect packs / map mods.

Actually it isn't that apocalyptic, I guess a CwdT - Enduring Cry - Immortal Call - Increased Duration combo would give thim the time window needed to kill the pack.

Anyway, we can only wait and see.

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Bars wrote:

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shroudb wrote:

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Bars wrote:

The wording of the patch notes is extremely unclear. I somehow doubt they would actually make LL not work on multiple targets, that would reduce build variety to zero. Welcome to path of exile, pick your character: Witch (summoner), Shadow (trapper), Templar (totems), Marauder (again totems), Ranger or Duelist (fuck my life), Scion (what's the point?).

i still don't know how much it will affect average builds.

let's say a reave-melee damage-multistrike-added fire-BM

let's give it a reasonable 10k pdps. and let's say that this guy has 5k hp. so 1k leech/sec max.

assuming 6aps, that is 1700 damage/hit. Let's also say that this char has 8% LL.

0,08*1700= 136 hp.
this means that he leeches 136hp in 0,136secs (he attacks every 0,16secs so no problem with stacking there).

the net total is 816hp/sec instead of 1000.

if he had more pdps, like 15k, or more leech like 10%, he would still be capped at 1000hp/sec as he was before.

what he actually loses is the regeneration AFTER the fight is over, or when he is not hitting stuff.

Let's also say he has to skip all phys reflect packs / map mods.

Actually it isn't that apocalyptic, I guess a CwdT - Enduring Cry - Immortal Call - Increased Duration combo would give thim the time window needed to kill the pack.

Anyway, we can only wait and see.

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tackle70 wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Anyone who has experience with ultra mirror spammy end game ES builds could have seen these nerfs a mile away.

Maybe, but people with 200+ ex worth of gear will always be able to make broken builds. This nerf affects the ordinary player far more than it will the folks running around with BiS gear.

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Nephalim wrote:

VP crown builds were grossly overpowered, this way, they should die instantly to reflect instead of being able to 1 shot 78 mobs in 6p parties with no drawbacks. the best part is that they didnt actually need to legacy yet another ridiculous item to achieve this effect. Anyone who has experience with ultra mirror spammy end game ES builds could have seen these nerfs a mile away.

Both armor and evasion(ondars + acro) can be used evade reflect and I think GGG wants to slowly move the game from uncapped leech allowing you to instantly heal to full ES per attack in addition to providing reflect immunity.

The nerf to leech itself is somewhat troubling because AoE dps is the single most important factor for an end game build and now its mostly a ticking time bomb.

Honestly I just thought they would remove VP completely.

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So, just in case the implications aren't obvious to you, this means if you fire a Chain LMP Arrow into a group of reflect monsters in 1.1, you are still going to take damage 9 times, but instead of leeching 9 times, you will leech once. Hell, even if the monsters don't reflect damage, you are still only going to leech once.

Assuming a single hit is enough to leech 12.5% of your max life, this would not make a difference right?