POE aka "Capitalism Simulator"?

The trading complaints (cumbersome, effing useless trade/spam chat, etc etc) stems from the fact that completely self-found is not nearly as viable. You have currency, but in order to get the items that you need, it's a better idea to save them up to trade, because your attempt to 6-link (just an example, this is already for end-game) and correctly color your gear, you might spend one Jeweller, Fusing and Chrome each or 1000 each, meaning you're worse off than before you started if the latter happened.

Being completely at the mercy of the RNG is NOT fun. It simply means that gear-wise, everything is totally random. A simple fix for this is to make a recipe to guarantee an additional socket/link and change present slot colors. Making the recipe ridiculous is not a problem, as long as the option is there (say, 200 chromes + at least lvl 10 gem to add a socket of the desired color or some sh*t).

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3) They put some of the best items as map only or higher level drops, which means that players need to play more difficult areas to get them.

but casual players have an exceedingly difficult time putting together a character that can survive those maps- and so GGG demonstrates their contempt for casual players by putting those items out of reach.

a rathpith only available as a map drop ? really ? it wasn't a map only drop in anarchy - don't remember that it was a problem.

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4) They reduced the overall quantity of drops and improved the quality (rarity).

improved the rarity, but not the quality of the rarity. everyone here knows the incredible rarity of a rare with good stats.

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5) They continually add more uniques to the game, many of which are very nice items. If I remember correctly, GGG stated they have a goal to have a unique item for every base item type. The more unique item types, the more chances of getting one.

and so water down the unique pool even further, making useful uniques even more rare.

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Who knows what and how GGG will change in the future. I think they want players to be able to find good things, but they want to be careful about making it too easy to find gear and having players become bored.

maybe they should worry about players becoming bored because they are _not_ finding good things.

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Thoughtful and Constructive suggestions such as yours are taken into consideration by GGG. These forums do have a LOT of noise, so it may take awhile for them to see your post, but it is a helpful one.

i think GGG is trying to make this a good game- but they've ignored quite a bit of those constructive suggestions, and that's very disappointing. they've also added a lot of fun things to the game lately, and should get credit for that.

You're comparing a closed system to reality.
You're ignoring issues like the need to sustain your life (literally) in real life.
You're ignoring the fact that there's a certain "end" to the game, whereas life itself goes on indefinitely.
You're ignoring the fact the things in real life have a certain value, whereas things in PoE are only digital and have a value because people give them a value. "Coded" vs. "existing".
You're ignoring the fact that "goals" in RL and PoE differ tremendously.
You're ignoring the fact that PoE is a game.

Basicly, you're assuming that two things are alike, because you realized they have things in common. That's like comparing man to fish because they both need oxigen and have eyes. You can do that, but you can't draw a conclusion then, at least not one that will last in a serious discussion.

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ahcos wrote:

You're comparing a closed system to reality.
You're ignoring issues like the need to sustain your life (literally) in real life.
You're ignoring the fact that there's a certain "end" to the game, whereas life itself goes on indefinitely.
You're ignoring the fact the things in real life have a certain value, whereas things in PoE are only digital and have a value because people give them a value. "Coded" vs. "existing".
You're ignoring the fact that "goals" in RL and PoE differ tremendously.
You're ignoring the fact that PoE is a game.

Basicly, you're assuming that two things are alike, because you realized they have things in common. That's like comparing man to fish because they both need oxigen and have eyes. You can do that, but you can't draw a conclusion then, at least not one that will last in a serious discussion.

So there's no way that any of the structured systems in PoE are a reflect of real life in anyway. Why the fuck is there an economy then. We should be able to rob, steal and kill for items and let loose to our inner barbarity and savagery like it should be in this game.

I mean who the hell wants to talk to some to get an item from them?? Just cut them open and drag out their entrails and take what already belongs to YOU.

But really, many already understand that "fantasy" is not real life. PoE attempt to parallel or make use of any past/present economic systems isn't going well at all.

I'd rather play up to the true nature of this game and "take" what belongs to ME.

But we can't have it like we want!! amIrite?

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Reinhart wrote:

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Mr_Cee wrote:

The basic issue with trades is, that the actual trading (dis-?)functionality favours and supports the MAIN reason of this traders role: flipping, which is based on the ability to sell cheaper than you buy (and do nearly nothing else beside this). These 'middlemen' are a disease that needs a cure (and can be cured) - less efforts in trading leads poor joe to _much_ cheaper sources.

We'll see, how it goes with the announced improvements...

That is an issue in practically every online game. You will always have traders or 'middlemen' who rather trade than play the game. So what? In Path of Exile such a big fuss is made out of it while in other online games no one really cares.

In some online games traders have gazillions of gold bars/platinum coins in their stash. Does it make the game more fun? No not at all. It will make you jaded.

So either you dont give a shit about those gazillion gold bars in Path of Exile and you enjoy the game for what it is. Or you actually do care and are simply jealous what those traders do ingame.

The difference is, those other games have brokers or auction houses that make it easy for the average player to buy and sell mid-tier gear.

Very few players expect access to "The Best", but most enjoy being able to progress to some degree without feeling as through they are either pounding their head against the wall or being ripped off.

Why not make a league where currency is banned and instead barter item for item.

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ahcos wrote:

Basicly, you're assuming that two things are alike, because you realized they have things in common. That's like comparing man to fish because they both need oxigen and have eyes. You can do that, but you can't draw a conclusion then, at least not one that will last in a serious discussion.

Well now i understand you point. My goal was NOT to set the POE economy EQUAL to the real world economy but they have a lot of thinks in common to make it useful to COMPARE them. To make it clear: Yes you can make suggestions from about one system to another system when it behaves equal in certain categories. OK lets head to your fish example (i suck at biologies). Lets say you can for sure compare a fish to a whale. And you can say: Oh the fish moves like this underwater so i assume the whale has a similar movement. But you cant say: This fish gets babys this way, so the whale has to get babys a similar way. The reference frame is the living under water which influences both specials equal. There is a logical connection between the living under water. There is not when it comes to making babys. So back to the economy. Thats our reference frame under which we compare POE and the real world. Assumptions can always be wrong, so no one can say for sure what happens when GGG increased the droprates of removes IIR or whatever until they make it. Thats why i like the 4 month leagues, which gives GGG time to test stuff. At least they have to grew some balls and get some real Gameplay changes going on n the 4 months leagues, not just a little bit of tweaking.

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ahcos wrote:

You're comparing a closed system to reality.

POE is no closed system. Real Money Traders are the gate to the real world. But for shure the world economics is much more open. I also pointed that out, that inflation in general is not a bad thing (US habitants should know), in POE it has very less drawbacks then in reality.

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ahcos wrote:

You're ignoring issues like the need to sustain your life (literally) in real life.

Dont see any influence on the comparison. The need to sustain my life forces "me" into bad work conditions, which in general makes money accumulation much faster. To be clear: It makes no difference about the amount of wealth. It is about how it is distributed, both in POE and in the real world (which is all my post is about).

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ahcos wrote:

You're ignoring the fact that there's a certain "end" to the game, whereas life itself goes on indefinitely.

I am not sure, but the only point of influence i see is, that when your character gets delete the overall currency gets lesser (which btw means POE is no closed system). Don't see much influence at all here. If you just mean that life on earth is going on and on, thats something that rly shouldnt worry at all.

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ahcos wrote:

You're ignoring the fact the things in real life have a certain value, whereas things in PoE are only digital and have a value because people give them a value. "Coded" vs. "existing".

Everything has a value! In POE the value lies in you currency and the time you spend. In the real world there is not only money, its your car, you house even your personal data's. The value, as you said, depends on people who are interested in the things you have to offer. But for sure, things in PoE have a value to. The fact that you are willing to trade INGAME proves it.

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ahcos wrote:

You're ignoring the fact that "goals" in RL and PoE differ tremendously.

General goal in life? Happiness in a wide sense. Goal in POE? Eternal pain.

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ahcos wrote:

You're ignoring the fact that PoE is a game.

See the first part of this post.

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PandaMan wrote:

Why not make a league where currency is banned and instead barter item for item.

I once made a trade shop. It was unique in that I only accepted Item for Item trades.

Wanna guess how many hits i got of people actually willing to compare items and come together on a trade we could both agree on? 6. 6 people out of how many people do they claim play this game? Whereas guess how many people I had to turn away because they were offering currency and didnt want to do a real barter trade. like 20 or more. Most of which were super lowballers because nobody checks forums, only poexyz so they dont get important information like the fact that i wasnt accepting orbs. also, had a number of people try to weasel me out of my items by offering totally subpar items when considering the items they wanted.

In other words, it would never work. I was extremely willing to negotiate with people and even take a loss so long as the item offered was slightly interesting to me. 6 trades is what i managed doing that.

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morbo wrote:

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Roccandil wrote:

Can a player beat the regular content self-found?

Yes. But regular content is just a fraction of the real fun PoE has to offer.

Does this real fun require much trading?

Here's what happened to me after finishing the regular content:

- I learned how to be a good Piety/Dom split runner;
- MF cullers I met in public split-run parties liked me;
- As a result, I got invited to a guild;
- I got included and carried on high-level maps the guild was running, giving me an opportunity to see what would be required to run them myself;
- I bought a nice weapon from the guild;
- Doing many split runs over time, I found a BoR, an Aegis, and a Rainbowstrides (with a perfect Block roll)
- I can now be useful on high-end maps:



Not much of that involved me trading. The guild, however, has been a great place to do friendly trades and start learning about trading outside the guild. I've done a little trading by watching the Act 3 Noticeboard, and that's been interesting. Haven't used poe.xyz as anything but a reference so far.

I'm saving up for a Soultaker right now; don't know if I'll get one before the end of Domination, but it's nice to have a goal. I don't need the gated uniques, though it would be cool if I got one.

The real fun for me has been adapting my build to the cool gear I've found (I went from dual-wielding to block when I found the Aegis), finding cool people (voice chat with friends is the way to play!), finding loot (alts are good), learning how the game works (the wiki rocks), and defeating the challenges posed by areas (the unique maps are especially fun).

At any rate, I'm just one perspective, but why does it matter that there's an elite, wealthy merchant class in PoE? I have enough to have fun.

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phrazz wrote:

There is ONE thing I just can't understand, what so ever!

The player base is quite split: traders and non-traders. So why... WHY can't GGG make different leagues (permanent) that appeals to both groups?

"We do not want to further split the player base", they say. But the player base is already split, coz non-traders do not trade.

I just... Wow...

Does it offend you that other people trade? I mean, what will a new league for people who does not trade will change? traders will trade and non-traders won't trade, just like now.