the fun thing is everyone says diablo 3 is so bad and the auction house ruined it, but in the diablo 3 auction house you could easily buy and sell items even as a casual to get fast better gear and then enjoy the game, in poe you trade more then play
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Last edited by StormHunter#1808 on Feb 11, 2014, 7:33:54 AM
1) it would make the (end-)game easier, taking away a chunk of whats making it interesting (for players) How big this chunk is, depends on everyones personal opinion...
2) "Traders" simply would use multiple accounts, nothing solved but even more hassle for the "poor boy" to make his deals.
3) 'common' uniques will not make anyone 'rich' - even less if everone owns them. Guaranteed drops of high-value uniques are bad, its against their concept of rarity and would decrease their worth of course. Guaranteed high-value rare drops are just impossible.
The reality is:
* 'pure' non-traders are not affected by anything but their own droprates (which wont change, and therefor a NTL/SFL/whateveryoucallit is pointless).
face it: there are different ways to play these games; everybody can define his own role... 'trader' is one of these, with very low amount of 'real playtime'.
The basic issue with trades is, that the actual trading (dis-?)functionality favours and supports the MAIN reason of this traders role: flipping, which is based on the ability to sell cheaper than you buy (and do nearly nothing else beside this). These 'middlemen' are a disease that needs a cure (and can be cured) - less efforts in trading leads poor joe to _much_ cheaper sources.
We'll see, how it goes with the announced improvements...
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Last edited by Mr_Cee#0334 on Feb 11, 2014, 7:38:58 AM
I spent 90% of my time grinding, and I made a few hundred exalts during the 4 month league.
People like to blame the game for stuff, but when it comes down to it, getting wealthy in PoE comes down to game knowledge, and experience and people that have neither of these feel screwed over and want to be showered in loot. It took me over a year to have any idea how to make tons of currency(Like I was poor as fuck all of CB and all of Onslaught) but then I took the time to study the game and study the player that I saw making currency, and I don't flip/rmt/anything I just play the game, I don't even enter trade channel aside from trying to pick up a few jewelers or something.
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Last edited by Manocean#0852 on Feb 11, 2014, 7:44:55 AM
I spent 90% of my time grinding, and I made a few hundred exalts during the 4 month league.
People like to blame the game for stuff, but when it comes down to it, getting wealthy in PoE comes down to game knowledge, and experience and people that have neither of these feel screwed over and want to be showered in loot. It took me over a year to have any idea how to make tons of currency(Like I was poor as fuck all of CB and all of Onslaught) but then I took the time to study the game and study the player that I saw making currency, and I don't flip/rmt/anything I just play the game, I don't even enter trade channel aside from trying to pick up a few jewelers or something.
I have done the same thing, minus trading. I have grinded thousands of hours, done countless chaos recipes, used thousands of fusings, yolo alched and yolo exalted so many items i cant even tell you how may it may be.
In the end, because i chose not to be a trader, my gear is far below the standard of the rest of the guys I map with. They carry me. They provide all the high level maps. I contribute jack shit besides some chisels and some chaos and alchs on occasion.
As somebody who has put this many hours into the game I can tell you it doesnt feel good to grind for so many hours and be sub-par while anyone who traded and flipped has top notch gear for any build they can think up.
It actually feels really shitty.
Oh well, in forty minute, if nobody sells me some eternals, im giving all my shit to my guild for them to sell for chaos to continue mapping, it will be my greatest contribution to their fun in my whole time here.
So first of why I make this post: There are many people complaining about the POE economy for several reasons. I think the biggest part is, that when it comes to maps, the game has definitive an item-check which is hard to approve by just playing the game. You need to trade at least at the end of merciless and you get in contact with the “broken” economy.
Is the economy rly broken? I don’t think so. When you take a look at the wealth distribution in several country’s you see what you expect from pretty much every unregulated economy. I am pretty sure the same thing happened with the POE economy, where about 60-80% of the current wealth are owned by players with a summarized game time of 10% of the total game time of all players. In shot: There are few rich players and a lot of poor players. The reason I make this call is, because I think in game currency (orbs, expensive items) behave in many ways like real life currency. The reasons in my opinion are:
1. Getting richer offers you much better trades in form of the absolute amount of currency you make. Lets say you are on of the “working poor” POE players who is happy to get a GMP-Gem for 2 Chaos instead of 3 Chaos. The trade took you several minutes and your value was 1 Chaos (if you are lucky). So assuming you only make a slight average advantage by trading makes it pretty much pointless for you, if you are poor. If you are rich and get a Kaom’s Heard for lets say 30 Exalteds and sell it for 35 Exalteds (note relatively spoken this is a worse trade, then the poor mens trade). You get a total benefit of 5 Exalteds or around 150 Chaos. So trading with top-tier items is far (!) more beneficial then trading with low-tier items.
2. As working don’t get you rich, playing the game don’t get you rich. Shure you can get a great job and climb career ladder but in the end, as well as find the one lucky (mirror) drop, but in the end, that’s not how the average gets rich. Lets face it: In POE you get rich by getting access to very beneficial trades or making bot-slaves work for you.
So that I think is the main point Path of Exile feels at a certain level more like the real world capitalism then like a game. Well of course it’s an ARPG game, which kind of has the goal to make us believe in its version of the American dream. “When I grind long and hard (efficient) enough, one day, I get rich.” And sure there are people who make it this way. But lets face it: You need very much luck on your side to do so and for the average Joe, that’s no possibly. As I am not happy with the way the “game” is right now, meaning you need access to very expensive items to get to endgame (high lvl maps) if you don’t want to rely on a few several non-item dependent builds, here are some of my suggestions how GGG can fix this issue:
1. Making endgame (high lvl maps) playable with average items. So basically this means: removing all gear checks. I personally don’t like this option, cuz that makes “getting rich” in this game pretty much pointless.
2. If you want the let yourself inspire by the real world economy, taxes are an option. That’s sounds silly sure, but you need to transfer incoming taxes in the game economy. There are two resources in the game: time and wealth. So if you want to make trading less beneficial you can create a “time tax”. (Well the crap trading system is of course kind of a “time-tax” in itself.) For example: Allow on your players account only 5 trades a weak. Most of the players won’t notice much, but if you are a rich trader, that will hurt you pretty much.
3. This is my favorite option by far. Make us believe in the American dream! Let the average Joe get rich, if he plays hard enough. Meaning: 1. Let everyone(= no IIR or IIQ crap, which favors certain builds) get guaranteed (= you want to get a certain amount of wealth when I play the game for sure. Make bosses drops unique or something like that.) wealth by playing the game (=increase loot significantly). The only core rule has to be: the harder the content goes, the more wealth he can earn per minute! And shure the wealth/minute should still be some kind of a gambling (imho), but atm its totaly random which it shouldnt be.
Don’t get me wrong I still think trading should be an option to get rich, but atm it’s kind of the only option which is by no means fair and results in a strange gap in wealth earning between the player base. Making “playing the fking game” more beneficial even that gap out. And yes I am speaking about an inflation of the “ecosystem” but guess what: How do you can make current wealth distribution less meaningful for the future of the game? INFLATION!, since there is no currency other then the ingame currency (I rly hope GGG don’t look at all the real money traders!), there is nothing to worry about!
So I am interested to see what you think about my comparison. Sry for my bad english btw.
Your English is fine, and your post is well thought out. From what I have seen in the game, GGG has slightly started to go in the direction of your third suggestion.
1) No - there are no guaranteed drops, but they did increase the drops for act bosses.
2) They are looking at what effect removing "of quantity" modifiers would have on the game, which would take out some of the magic finding boost that is a gear check.
3) They put some of the best items as map only or higher level drops, which means that players need to play more difficult areas to get them.
4) They reduced the overall quantity of drops and improved the quality (rarity).
5) They continually add more uniques to the game, many of which are very nice items. If I remember correctly, GGG stated they have a goal to have a unique item for every base item type. The more unique item types, the more chances of getting one.
6) Item drops are improved for characters playing in areas that are still challenging for them, and diminished for areas that are far beneath their character level. A level 80 character running Normal Ledge with no magic find gear will not find anywhere near the same number and rarity of drops (per run) that a level 5-10 character would. This applies very heavily to currency drops such as Alchemy orbs, Chaos orbs, etc.
Who knows what and how GGG will change in the future. I think they want players to be able to find good things, but they want to be careful about making it too easy to find gear and having players become bored.
Thoughtful and Constructive suggestions such as yours are taken into consideration by GGG. These forums do have a LOT of noise, so it may take awhile for them to see your post, but it is a helpful one.
"The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
Path of Exile’s economy is the most important element of the game to us.
This it the biggest problem with the game. When GGG thinks the economy is more important then player satisfaction, loot, or fun then you end up with an economic simulator that has a ARPG mini-game inside it.
Because they moved my thread to the dead zone I will put these here
"
thedestroyerofkids wrote:
Just as the title says.
Do you guys have any plans to close the gap between traders and farmers?
Is there any hope for those of us who like the game, dont mind farming for extended periods of time, and have no interest in trading, to not be at such a disadvantage?
Are there any plans for the choice to trade or farm and craft to become an actual meaningful choice instead of the obvious best choice always being to buy the item if it exists?
"
thedestroyerofkids wrote:
But if they really wanted to be hardcore it would be the traders, partiers, and path of least resistance players who were the losers.
What I would like to see is some losers and some winners from both sides. It would be even better if the game was so complex and rewarding that it was almost impossible to tell if you are winning or losing.
Really, the advantage of trading and flipping should not be so obvious.
Maybe, just maybe, they should remove eternals, vastly reduce the drop rates of mirrors, and greatly increase the exalt drop rate.
The devaluation of wealth overnight would close the gap instantly because now farmers can actually obtain exalts to gamble with while the traders could continue to flip items from eachother all day every day just passing items and orbs between themselves.
Would be satisfying to see the flippers and traders brought back down to the same level as the grinders.
