Scrotie, I would argue that players that don't understand why they fail in PoE will be the same ones that argue that their subjective experiences are the norm, and the game must change to account for it.
My issues with PoE are MY ISSUES. I don't present them as facts of the game's failures. I understand also that there is nothing forcing me to play this game, and that if I cease to enjoy it, for whatever personal reasons I might have, I will simply quit the game.
Let me examplify something i could have said to show you just how misleading your statements are. Something i have said before could have been:
I believe boosting unique drop rates would benefit the game. Here are some things i judge that from:
1. The amount of currency uniques are worth, and average farming hours it takes to acquire them.
2. The fact that they they are much easier to acquire than the topmost rares, which means you are not done farming for your character when you get them.
3. That uniques were far more common in D2, and that i and many many others, in fact he majority of D2 players i know(which is quite a few), large parts of the internet etc believe it created a good flow through the game.
4. That only those who play nonstop or trade has time to get 1-3 of the very expensive uniques on their build in short leagues, ie. the majority of the end-game potential is kept away from players.
5. That good long-time ARPG loving players are quitting because drops are not rewarding enough.
6. The reason it takes so long to get "there" in poe is because GGG knows that what is the most interesting is progression. But it is entirely possible that they lock players into long periods of near-no progression, instead of allowing people to reach reach a satisfying plague and reroll from satisfaction rather than frustration.
Of these points only 3 and 6 are subjective, but again your reponses has before been to this: Accept or GTFO. Which is useless. These forums are for discussions, and everyone has the right to say whatever they mean.
I happen to mean boosting unique droprates would be good for the game, deal with it.
I can agree with this, only in part. Some PoE uniques need to remain extremely rare, just because of the imbalance in character power that they cause. Things like Shav's, Kaom's, Soul Taker, Voltaxic, etc.
This applied in D2 as well. For example, you didn't see everyone and their mother running around with Arkaine's Valor, Windforce, Stormshield, etc. in .08. It wasn't until the mass dupe sprees down the road that these starting falling into the hands of most everyone. Also, D2 had a very strange...flow so far as rarity vs. reward went. Some of the most piss useless items in the game were only highly valuable because they were extremely rare. Prior to the changes in .10, Griswold's set was just...ahahahahahaterrible. However, due to the helm and shield being nigh impossible to come by, except for by dedicated Pindlebotters, they remained high in cost. I found three WFs over the course of my time in D2, but not a single Gris shield.
In general, comparing one to the other in anything more than spirit just seems relatively pointless to me. I've played both. Both had their extremely common but quite powerful drops (Facebreakers and Blood Dance here, Arreat's Face and Buriza there) and their "zomfg" powerful but extremely rare drops (Soul Taker and Voltaxic here, Windforce and Shaffer's Hammer there).
Yes yes, I know everything I said above applied only to pre-.10, but that's when nearly every unique was phased out by runewords made with duped runes anyway.
Let me examplify something i could have said to show you just how misleading your statements are. Something i have said before could have been:
I believe boosting unique drop rates would benefit the game. Here are some things i judge that from:
1. The amount of currency uniques are worth, and average farming hours it takes to acquire them.
2. The fact that they they are much easier to acquire than the topmost rares, which means you are not done farming for your character when you get them.
3. That uniques were far more common in D2, and that i and many many others, in fact he majority of D2 players i know(which is quite a few), large parts of the internet etc believe it created a good flow through the game.
4. That only those who play nonstop or trade has time to get 1-3 of the very expensive uniques on their build in short leagues, ie. the majority of the end-game potential is kept away from players.
5. That good long-time ARPG loving players are quitting because drops are not rewarding enough.
6. The reason it takes so long to get "there" in poe is because GGG knows that what is the most interesting is progression. But it is entirely possible that they lock players into long periods of near-no progression, instead of allowing people to reach reach a satisfying plague and reroll from satisfaction rather than frustration.
Of these points only 3 and 6 are subjective, but again your reponses has before been to this: Accept or GTFO. Which is useless. These forums are for discussions, and everyone has the right to say whatever they mean.
I happen to mean boosting unique droprates would be good for the game, deal with it.
I disagree with point #5. Strongly.
Increasing the amount of reward isn't going to retain players better; it's just going to make them blow through content faster. Do you remember what happened in Diablo 3 when they took the droprate of legendaries and doubled it? Nothing good; if anything, it hastened the game's downfall.
The trick is not to make slaying monsters more rewarding with drops. It's to make slaying monsters more rewarding in and of itself. Map affixes and monster affixes are key areas of focus here. Also skill design. Also soundtrack and artwork.
Also motherfucking desync.
Due to my disagreement with #5, I also disagree with #6 (being stuck in long periods of near-no progression shouldn't be that bad, if the monster-slaying itself is fun), and also #4 (making farming more enjoyable would mean players would trade less and farm more).
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Feb 3, 2014, 8:29:17 PM
Let me examplify something i could have said to show you just how misleading your statements are. Something i have said before could have been:
I believe boosting unique drop rates would benefit the game. Here are some things i judge that from:
1. The amount of currency uniques are worth, and average farming hours it takes to acquire them.
2. The fact that they they are much easier to acquire than the topmost rares, which means you are not done farming for your character when you get them.
3. That uniques were far more common in D2, and that i and many many others, in fact he majority of D2 players i know(which is quite a few), large parts of the internet etc believe it created a good flow through the game.
4. That only those who play nonstop or trade has time to get 1-3 of the very expensive uniques on their build in short leagues, ie. the majority of the end-game potential is kept away from players.
5. That good long-time ARPG loving players are quitting because drops are not rewarding enough.
6. The reason it takes so long to get "there" in poe is because GGG knows that what is the most interesting is progression. But it is entirely possible that they lock players into long periods of near-no progression, instead of allowing people to reach reach a satisfying plague and reroll from satisfaction rather than frustration.
Of these points only 3 and 6 are subjective, but again your reponses has before been to this: Accept or GTFO. Which is useless. These forums are for discussions, and everyone has the right to say whatever they mean.
I happen to mean boosting unique droprates would be good for the game, deal with it.
I disagree with point #5. Strongly.
Increasing the amount of reward isn't going to retain players better; it's just going to make them blow through content faster. Do you remember what happened in Diablo 3 when they took the droprate of legendaries and doubled it? Nothing good; if anything, it hastened the game's downfall.
The trick is not to make slaying monsters more rewarding with drops. It's to make slaying monsters more rewarding in and of itself. Map affixes and monster affixes are key areas of focus here. Also skill design. Also soundtrack and artwork.
Also motherfucking desync.
Due to my disagreement with #5, I also disagree with #6 (being stuck in long periods of near-no progression shouldn't be that bad, if the monster-slaying itself is fun), and also #4 (making farming more enjoyable would mean players would trade less and farm more).
I'm glad that someone aside from me posted disagreement with his statements.
My disagreement was with his false assertion that only a part of it was subjective.
Last edited by Sinnesteuer#7507 on Feb 3, 2014, 9:36:03 PM
Then let us pretend that those i know who have quit for those reasons, that those i have seen give similar reasons on forums and other i have run into in other games discussing PoE didn't lose interest for that reason, let's pretend that didn't happen if it makes you happy.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
Then let us pretend that those i know who have quit for those reasons, that those i have seen give similar reasons on forums and other i have run into in other games discussing PoE didn't lose interest for that reason, let's pretend that didn't happen if it makes you happy.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have been trolling, hard, this whole thread. I am doing this because I cannot conceive of anyone actually being so dense as to fail to comprehend, exactly, the counter arguments to your OP.
I'm done bouncing my ball against your head, I'm taking and going home.
Googled BTO, still no idea what you're saying here.
Also, respond to my earlier post already.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Googled BTO, still no idea what you're saying here.
Also, respond to my earlier post already.
There isn't much to say Scrotie, i mean that people leave claiming unrewarding drops isn't an opinion, but what it means to the game can be. I don't mean to say there is a flood of people, i just think it is a shame that most people that i know liked D2 thinks PoE is a bit too heavy. Maybe they are just raging spoiled kids. So i can't do anything else than accept you don't agree about it's meaning to the game, all i wanted to do was give some reasons why i thought one of the things i did.
EDIT: wait one sec there is something i want to say.
Lately i have been juggling an idea i find hard to express. It's about the game only staying interesting while you are still progressing. PoE does it in the way it is almost impossible for the player to actually farm his way(not trading) to the very top end of things, so it makes it so heavy that it is not possible. Theorytically that could result in the density of flow, the satisfaction in progression per unit of time being much lower than if it was easier to gear up characters. And i am not talking about making BiS rares easily achieveable or 500% boosts to uniques, but i think that some boosts to uniques could make it a shorter more satisfying quality dense progression period, after which you can start a new character out of satisfaction rather than frustration (i think that is a good line to walk). You get to play the content again, and once again experience those lower chracter levels of higher satisfaction per unit of time. That in the end gives players more feeling of progression which is the satisfying part over time.
Of course you have to make sure that you do not make it so easy that players blaze through 5-15builds in a couple of months then having drained the entire content. Let's say with some 15-85% boosts to uniques, you couldn't even complete 1-2 characters anyway in that time, even with those boosts PoE is still in the heavy end.
Right now, the game is balanced around the permanent leagues, that really gives the best most complete experiences for the players who do not flip items or have an organized map group (the majority of players). Yet, i believe that ladders were the longevity of D2, and i hope PoE can go to a place where people who play a good 5-10h almost every day can complete 1-3 characters during a full ladder season. Ladder seasons have the power that they are constant economy resets, so it should be made so that things start being rather abundant near the 3½ month mark of a season so that as many players as possible can experience the fullness of completing their character during it.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
Last edited by Crackmonster#7709 on Feb 4, 2014, 12:51:44 AM
