The reason for the low level of active players in Path of Exile

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tinko92 wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Not trying to insult traders, but they are actively bypassing the RNG of the game. that's just true fact's.

Isn't trade here because of that?

Yes it is. RNG sucks so badly for the average player, because you are meant to bypass it by trading. Every gameplay aspect is by design way shittier in giving you results, than trading.

GGG is simply coercing people into playing the game how they think it should be played, by making one option much more efficient than the other. The vast majority of players will eventually crack and take the 'shortcut' (which is not really a shortcut, but the default state of the game).

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Isn't trade here because of that?

Yes it is, but it's funny because it makes the game less difficult :).

If you read the rest then you see that i state that SF players get dished for wanting the
"easy route", while in fact trading is the enabler of the "easy route" and the sole purpose of it is to skip "time investment".

And that's a whole lot of funny's when i see somebody bring that argument of "sf" want BiS q.q

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You just don't get it.

If you trade for everything the drops mean nothing. If you CHOOSE not to trade, the drops come at a reasonable pace. You just learn to make things work with less. Its a cool way to play!
You cant have trading and find upgrades at a reasonable pace.

I agree that this is the case, however at a certain point there is no more progression to be gained for an SF player, well there is but it is a lotto shot. Let alone a lotto for every single gear slot. Even if it is a marginal improvement :). But when you reach that point your character should be viable at least. But you will probably lose interest in the grind at this point.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Emrad wrote:

The idea I keep getting is to implement a somewhat not-so-random loot system.
Instead of relying on pure RNG to loot good rares, good uniques and currency items, you should have some assurance to get something decent once in a while.

With the current system, on average, let's say players recieve an Exalted Orb every 30 hours they play, and GGG is happy with that. The problem is that an unlucky portion will get none in 300 hours+, the lucky ones will get much more than one and only a few players actually match the average.

So the idea would be to have some sort of incremental hidden Increased Item Rarity that resets when you end up getting a fine drop. The "fine" drop could go from a Divine to a Koam's Heart e.g., keeping high RNG involved, but not too much as it is right now.

RNG is fine, luck/unlucky is fine, if there is one thing I agree with Chris on, it's that this type of game would be extremely bland and boring without RNG or with guarantees.

Please note that I'm not calling for the disappearance of RNG, but some sort of softening on it.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

The problem is, and this is where GGG contradict themselves, every single point of RNG can by design be circumvented through wealth. All the things GGG say should be rare, hard to get, etc.
Chaining final tier maps.
Respecs.
Uber uniques.
BiS perfect rares, via eter-ex and mirror.
6 Links, merely purchased directly or via lottery.

In my opinion, crafting is just part of the RNG of the game. You'll waste most of your currencies if you don't spend them very wisely, so that currency sink is fine considering how RNG-based it is. With you're mindset, I can't see where you see this as problematic.

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FriedFeline wrote:

Everyone asking for guaranteed drops needs to learn a little bit about psychology and variable interval rewards.

The best thing they could do is up the quality of random drops, but that has its own issues.

I'm not unfamiliar with this variable interval reward, but it implies that you receive some sort of reward. So when you don't get anything in 50 hours, you'll be much less likely to try again.
Of course, PoE isn't all about item dropping, the simple fact of bashing mobs with an awesome build brings a lot of pleasure too. But IMHO, getting to the next level by finding decent loot is really what keeps me going.

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morbo wrote:

Yes it is. RNG sucks so badly for the average player, because you are meant to bypass it by trading. Every gameplay aspect is by design way shittier in giving you results, than trading.

GGG is simply coercing people into playing the game how they think it should be played, by making one option much more efficient than the other. The vast majority of players will eventually crack and take the 'shortcut' (which is not really a shortcut, but the default state of the game).

I'll quote myself:

"everybody found that needle, just not for themselves.

So, you trade that useless needle for another needle, or, since it's also very hard that someone who has "your" needle needs "his" needle which dropped to you, you trade that needle for currency, and then that currency for "your" needle."

The needle would be an item.


Think about this, how many base items exist, how many mods exist and how many mod brackets.
After that, think about the possibilities that you drop an item that is an upgrade to yours, and since we all now it has to be something large, not just +20 life and +20 cold resistance, because people don't even notice that.

People mostly want a nice upgrade like Kaoms, Soul Taker, Shavs or Voltaxic.

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tinko92 wrote:

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morbo wrote:

Yes it is. RNG sucks so badly for the average player, because you are meant to bypass it by trading. Every gameplay aspect is by design way shittier in giving you results, than trading.

GGG is simply coercing people into playing the game how they think it should be played, by making one option much more efficient than the other. The vast majority of players will eventually crack and take the 'shortcut' (which is not really a shortcut, but the default state of the game).

I'll quote myself:

"everybody found that needle, just not for themselves.

So, you trade that useless needle for another needle, or, since it's also very hard that someone who has "your" needle needs "his" needle which dropped to you, you trade that needle for currency, and then that currency for "your" needle."

The needle would be an item.


Think about this, how many base items exist, how many mods exist and how many mod brackets.
After that, think about the possibilities that you drop an item that is an upgrade to yours, and since we all now it has to be something large, not just +20 life and +20 cold resistance, because people don't even notice that.

People mostly want a nice upgrade like Kaoms, Soul Taker, Shavs or Voltaxic.

You're assuming that everyone finds the needle to trade for another one though, and that's your first mistake.

Awesome uniques are the easiest way to upgrade because the affixes on rares are so numerous that it gets near impossible to loot or craft one yourself.

The only thing that GGG needs to fix in my opinion is the drop of low level uniques on end game content.Doing boss runs,map runs and seeing the same 10+/- of same uniques every day makes me alt F4 the game and go play starbound but sadly the new patch didnt came out so bah.

Naturally you cannot have trade enabled and allow players to find upgrades themselves within reasonable time that is near BiS, and i love trade.

One thing i believe could be touched is the droprate of super high-end uniques. Things such as voltaxic, shavronnes, auxium etc, things that builds are based on.

To acquire exalts through farming is relatively straightforward. Alterations, fusings, chromes, chaos, gcp, chisels, jeweller etc all can be accumulated over time to stack up. That in itself works well, and it accounts for the majority of your exalts you would acquire without exceptional luck with drops.

The problem is not that you cannot acquire exalts, the problem is that these basic uniques are so rare that they are valued at a too high level of farming hours for an average farmer to achieve within a reasonable time frame.

Now notice that they are merely basic uniques. The real rare things in poe are actual rares which are far rarer. Because of that, you do not end up with everyone decked out in BiS items if the basic uniques are easier to acquire, a misconception a lot of people appear to have.

So yea, i believe it would help to make the top-end uniques less rare.

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tinko92 wrote:

<...>After that, think about the possibilities that you drop an item that is an upgrade to yours, and since we all now it has to be something large, not just +20 life and +20 cold resistance, because people don't even notice that.

People mostly want a nice upgrade like Kaoms, Soul Taker, Shavs or Voltaxic.

Dafuq?

I dunno about anyone else (any more).

But if I have an item with

+100 armour
+90% armour
60 life
20 fire
16 cold
10 block and stun

And I find an item with

+100 armour
+90% armour
80 life
20 fire
36 cold
10 block and stun

I'ma be over the fkn moon!!!