Difference between MOBAs and ARPGs in terms of desync

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kruemel2222 wrote:

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ghost8686 wrote:

I actually explained in detail earlier in this thread exactly why they are different.... It has nothing to do with coding. It also has nothing to do with Path of Exile being unique. It has to do with the two genre's of games using completely different systems. Kind of like how League has a different movement system as opposed to shooters like CoD....

That's my point. No matter what game you compare to PoE - when talking about desync - there is always someone who will explain in detail why they think the two games are different and why you can't compare them. Neither the genre nor the age of the other game matters.

It's funny that PoE seems to be so special, isn't it?

I don't "think" they are different. They ARE different. PoE isn't special, its just an ARPG. ARPG's use an entirely different system for how the character is controlled then MOBA's do. This is not an opinion, this is fact.

I am not saying desync is not a problem, I never once in any of my posts tried to argue that. All I am saying is the correct question to ask is why does PoE have such bad desync while OTHER ARPG games do not. My point was just that League and other MOBA games are incomparable because they use entirely different systems. Asking why League doesn't have desync is pointless as a result, although if you read my post on page 3 that is explained anyways.

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That is B.S. PoE controls are almost same as LoL. Only difference is PoE mouse clicks can be assigned a skill other than auto attack, while LoL champ skills are all on hotkeys. Everything else is same.

That is not BS. You THINK they control almost the same because you are completely ignorant to how the underlying systems function. Don't talk about things you do not understand. Go to page 3 and read my post if you want to understand how different the two actually are.

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That is B.S. PoE controls are almost same as LoL. Only difference is PoE mouse clicks can be assigned a skill other than auto attack, while LoL champ skills are all on hotkeys. Everything else is same.

......wat?

WAT?

I'm not even to spend time on this thread. GL ghost for actually trying.

Point is..players here and even GGG is just guessing why PoE is in constant desync and other games do not.. they have theories of course..but no company would release their source code, net code and command handling logic to anyone..

I have to agree however, I have hard times to see some big differences between moba games and ARPGs if we are talking about net-code and desync..Also old fairy-tale about D3 (Auto hitting monsters) finally has been proved as fairy-tale..

in PoE ..there is not any additional "dice roll"..hit will either connect or not ...if hit will connect, there is check for evade/dodge/whatever ...exactly like in any another ARPG or MOBA..

So problem has to be somewhere else..

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ManiaCCC wrote:

Point is..players here and even GGG is just guessing why PoE is in constant desync and other games do not.. they have theories of course..but no company would release their source code, net code and command handling logic to anyone..

I have to agree however, I have hard times to see some big differences between moba games and ARPGs if we are talking about net-code and desync..Also old fairy-tale about D3 (Auto hitting monsters) finally has been proved as fairy-tale..

in PoE ..there is not any additional "dice roll"..hit will either connect or not ...if hit will connect, there is check for evade/dodge/whatever ...exactly like in any another ARPG or MOBA..

So problem has to be somewhere else..

That's not correct. In a MOBA, if using an auto attack or targeted spell, once the attack is launched it auto-connects. Maybe there is a roll AFTER it hits to determine whether the attack is blocked or dodged or something, but it IS going to hit. In path of exile, every ability in the game pretty much can simply miss the intended target if they move a tiny bit. The only similarity to League in terms of attacking is league's "skill shots" which only hit if the attack hits the targets hit box. However none of that has anything to do with desync anyways.

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ghost8686 wrote:

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kruemel2222 wrote:

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ghost8686 wrote:

I actually explained in detail earlier in this thread exactly why they are different.... It has nothing to do with coding. It also has nothing to do with Path of Exile being unique. It has to do with the two genre's of games using completely different systems. Kind of like how League has a different movement system as opposed to shooters like CoD....

That's my point. No matter what game you compare to PoE - when talking about desync - there is always someone who will explain in detail why they think the two games are different and why you can't compare them. Neither the genre nor the age of the other game matters.

It's funny that PoE seems to be so special, isn't it?

I don't "think" they are different. They ARE different. PoE isn't special, its just an ARPG. ARPG's use an entirely different system for how the character is controlled then MOBA's do. This is not an opinion, this is fact.

I am not saying desync is not a problem, I never once in any of my posts tried to argue that. All I am saying is the correct question to ask is why does PoE have such bad desync while OTHER ARPG games do not. My point was just that League and other MOBA games are incomparable because they use entirely different systems. Asking why League doesn't have desync is pointless as a result, although if you read my post on page 3 that is explained anyways.

Okay, let's try it another way. Pick any ARPG that doesn't have desync in your opinion and make a thread that reads something like "ARPG X doesn't desync why can't PoE do better?". Check back tomorrow and you will find an essay why you can't compare ARPG X to POE.

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ghost8686 wrote:

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ManiaCCC wrote:

Point is..players here and even GGG is just guessing why PoE is in constant desync and other games do not.. they have theories of course..but no company would release their source code, net code and command handling logic to anyone..

I have to agree however, I have hard times to see some big differences between moba games and ARPGs if we are talking about net-code and desync..Also old fairy-tale about D3 (Auto hitting monsters) finally has been proved as fairy-tale..

in PoE ..there is not any additional "dice roll"..hit will either connect or not ...if hit will connect, there is check for evade/dodge/whatever ...exactly like in any another ARPG or MOBA..

So problem has to be somewhere else..

That's not correct. In a MOBA, if using an auto attack or targeted spell, once the attack is launched it auto-connects. Maybe there is a roll AFTER it hits to determine whether the attack is blocked or dodged or something, but it IS going to hit. In path of exile, every ability in the game pretty much can simply miss the intended target if they move a tiny bit. The only similarity to League in terms of attacking is league's "skill shots" which only hit if the attack hits the targets hit box. However none of that has anything to do with desync anyways.

you may be right.. I played Lol..twice ..played HoN quite a bit.. but can't remember how attacks were made in this game or If I could avoid attack just by moving away..but maybe not.

However..I was playing others ARPGs alongside of PoE for quite a bit..and at least TL2 nor D3 is affected by desync in way like PoE..Yes..I read big long post "why this is the case" but it seems that at least some parts of that long post are guesses ..and wrong guesses..

I will be honest.. I like PoE..there are many things I would love to change gameplay wise..but still.. I like it..however..desync is something what really puts me off.. after playing so many new modern games.. PoE feels so clunky it's not even funny..

i have 0 technical understanding on the whole desync issue, but what i think its important to have because you are playing path of exile alone usually in an instance, and the desync is preventing you to cheat

for example you could just start cheat enginge (for those who dont know cheat enginge) it let you run games faster, but if you do that in path of exile you will be continue to go desync and the game would not be playable

if there was no desync people would cheat the heck out of it, they maybe even do know but i dont know how then :D

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haunted33 wrote:

i have 0 technical understanding on the whole desync issue, but what i think its important to have because you are playing path of exile alone usually in an instance, and the desync is preventing you to cheat

for example you could just start cheat enginge (for those who dont know cheat enginge) it let you run games faster, but if you do that in path of exile you will be continue to go desync and the game would not be playable

if there was no desync people would cheat the heck out of it, they maybe even do know but i dont know how then :D

Even if you were right.. .. I still don't agree with it..why the hell punish everyone because of some bad apples ?

Not even talking about fact, that many games don't have these mysterious hacks ramparting everywhere yet are not desyncing like crazy :)

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haunted33 wrote:

i have 0 technical understanding on the whole desync issue, but what i think its important to have because you are playing path of exile alone usually in an instance, and the desync is preventing you to cheat

for example you could just start cheat enginge (for those who dont know cheat enginge) it let you run games faster, but if you do that in path of exile you will be continue to go desync and the game would not be playable

if there was no desync people would cheat the heck out of it, they maybe even do know but i dont know how then :D

Most online games that trust the client for anything have special measures in place to ensure there's no cheating.

In the case of movement, it's pretty damn easy: the server keeps track of your location and movespeed every 250ms and has a range of locations the next refresh could place your character. If the character position sent back is outside of that range (i.e. you're going faster than you should be), the server rubberbands you to within that range.

Infantry Online had an anti-speed hack system described above, and it was released in 1999.

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Okay, let's try it another way. Pick any ARPG that doesn't have desync in your opinion and make a thread that reads something like "ARPG X doesn't desync why can't PoE do better?". Check back tomorrow and you will find an essay why you can't compare ARPG X to POE.

Ok, that may be a true, and that is an issue not relevant to this thread. This thread specifically was comparing MOBA's to PoE, and I simply was trying to explain why this is silly.

As for why other ARPG games do not have as bad desync, if people say the reason is the games are incomparable that just is false and those people are wrong.

IMO, there probably are ways desync could be reduced or even eliminated, but that's a discussion thats unrelated to this thread anyways. I do agree desync is a problem, I just think specifically this topic makes no sense and serves no purpose in furthering the discussion anyways.