Difference between MOBAs and ARPGs in terms of desync

Whoever says MOBA games (particularly LoL) don't have desync then you're just deluding yourself. Ever notice minions suddenly moving along at turbo speed? Yeah, that's desync.

Also, the number of ways LoL is exploitable is quite vast. It has and is being done. A lot.

And Dota is sluggish as hell: the turnrate and built in delay are gigantic, which allow more time for netcode to do their magic. Yet they also sometimes get out of sync.

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ghost8686 wrote:

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That is B.S. PoE controls are almost same as LoL. Only difference is PoE mouse clicks can be assigned a skill other than auto attack, while LoL champ skills are all on hotkeys. Everything else is same.

That is not BS. You THINK they control almost the same because you are completely ignorant to how the underlying systems function. Don't talk about things you do not understand. Go to page 3 and read my post if you want to understand how different the two actually are.

I do understand the difference. It's a difference of choice. None of these models are inherent to ARPG games or MOBA games (and yes, I use this term precisely because it seems to infuriate people). It was a design decision and the person saying that the controls are very similar is correct: the controls are essentially the same, the networking model is different, however.

I dont play LoL but dota and just want to point out.

Windrunner + Shackle Shot and desync makes the magic happen.

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Aelloon wrote:

Whoever says MOBA games (particularly LoL) don't have desync then you're just deluding yourself. Ever notice minions suddenly moving along at turbo speed? Yeah, that's desync.

Also, the number of ways LoL is exploitable is quite vast. It has and is being done. A lot.

And Dota is sluggish as hell: the turnrate and built in delay are gigantic, which allow more time for netcode to do their magic. Yet they also sometimes get out of sync.

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ghost8686 wrote:

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That is B.S. PoE controls are almost same as LoL. Only difference is PoE mouse clicks can be assigned a skill other than auto attack, while LoL champ skills are all on hotkeys. Everything else is same.

That is not BS. You THINK they control almost the same because you are completely ignorant to how the underlying systems function. Don't talk about things you do not understand. Go to page 3 and read my post if you want to understand how different the two actually are.

I do understand the difference. It's a difference of choice. None of these models are inherent to ARPG games or MOBA games (and yes, I use this term precisely because it seems to infuriate people). It was a design decision and the person saying that the controls are very similar is correct: the controls are essentially the same, the networking model is different, however.

If by the same you mean the buttons you use for control are similiar, I agree. However the way the commands are processed by the client and the server are completely different. Thats the main point I've been making the whole time. No ARPG games use a MOBA system of client/server interaction because it would make the gameplay extremely sluggish in terms of action games. The actual buttons being pressed to play the game are completely irrelevant to what I was trying to get at.

People like the one I was responding to in the quote see how similiar the controls are and automatically assume the networking models are the same.

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Aelloon wrote:

Whoever says MOBA games (particularly LoL) don't have desync then you're just deluding yourself. Ever notice minions suddenly moving along at turbo speed? Yeah, that's desync.

Also, the number of ways LoL is exploitable is quite vast. It has and is being done. A lot.

And Dota is sluggish as hell: the turnrate and built in delay are gigantic, which allow more time for netcode to do their magic. Yet they also sometimes get out of sync.

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ghost8686 wrote:

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That is B.S. PoE controls are almost same as LoL. Only difference is PoE mouse clicks can be assigned a skill other than auto attack, while LoL champ skills are all on hotkeys. Everything else is same.

That is not BS. You THINK they control almost the same because you are completely ignorant to how the underlying systems function. Don't talk about things you do not understand. Go to page 3 and read my post if you want to understand how different the two actually are.

I do understand the difference. It's a difference of choice. None of these models are inherent to ARPG games or MOBA games (and yes, I use this term precisely because it seems to infuriate people). It was a design decision and the person saying that the controls are very similar is correct: the controls are essentially the same, the networking model is different, however.

-I'd prefer fast moving minions to randomly teleporting around and blowing up any day
-LoL is exploitable. So is PoE. Infact, bots and maphacks exist for PoE. Despite all of GGG's COSTLY preventions, i would say it is more exploited than LoL
-Dota is sluggish. I believe it was done to appeal to dota 1 fans though.

Another thing to consider: Is the sluggishness that results from the worst that "wait-for-server" netcode has to offer an okay compromise compared to the desync, teleporting, and unexpected deaths that come from the worst that PoE's current netcode offers?

I would much rather have a 0.5 second delay between my actions in worst case scenarios than being unable to reliably line up shots with Spectral Throw in best-case scenarios.

The difference between mobas and aspergers in terms of desync is that in mobas it lasts half a second and in poe it can last 5-10seconds in worst case scenarios and 9/10 times you end up dying in higher maps because of it if you are not a shielduser.

see those funny blenders higher then lvl 90 and rauders with a blue shield ?
ye theyve realised they need to factor in desync because its THAT BAD ACTUALLY to rely on the OP aegis in order to LEVEL.

When a disturbance in the netcode is so prominent people CATER THEIR BUILDS TO DEFEAT DESYNC NOT MOBS then the game has some real fucking huge issues which need to be worked on.

Wether or not GGG will take the needed steps to improve it is another question entirely.
right now the 4unique +gem minor content patches seem to be the priority with some Skin which i dont mind some folks love skins and want to show their appreciation towards the devs.

there is not a single map where i dont have to factor in desync and /oos every coupple of times.
Hell some fucking people even have a damn /oos macro because its THAT bad.

Also i dont lose hours of gameplay in a moba if i die to desync , i lose a tower tops or a creepwave o no ! If there were no deathpenalty in merc none of us would get as assmad as we do otherwise.

I used to get very mad at it myself even took a break because of it but now i just came to terms with the fact that the developer team is probably not willing to take care of this deeply because they´ve other issues - their business plan is not even catering towards fixing desync - fire under their ass hell do i know.

Fact is its been here from the start and is prolly going to stay for another few months and all of you can shut up about it now and cry about droprates instead because thats much worse then desync.

Good day.
edit: desync is the devil

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gilrad wrote:

Another thing to consider: Is the sluggishness that results from the worst that "wait-for-server" netcode has to offer an okay compromise compared to the desync, teleporting, and unexpected deaths that come from the worst that PoE's current netcode offers?

I would much rather have a 0.5 second delay between my actions in worst case scenarios than being unable to reliably line up shots with Spectral Throw in best-case scenarios.

It's not just the worst-case, games that use a system where the server has to verify the actions are automatically going to feel sluggish compared to an action game and be incapable of achieving the type of combat games like this have. And plenty of games use these systems with far less desync than PoE, so a solution should be fully achievable without majorly sacrificing gameplay.

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ghost8686 wrote:

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Freesland2 wrote:

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ghost8686 wrote:

the damage you are inflicting wont show up on your screen for a few seconds after it should have.

Weird, I could swear that that's exactly what this game does to me on high latency, along with some really insane desync and having to wait 0.5-1 second for an item to get selected so that I can move it around my inventory/stash.

You misunderstood me. The part you quoted was in fact referring to what PoE does with high latency. As you said, this also is seen when desyncing, although that is caused by your character not being in the same location the server thinks you are rather then the communication between the client and server being delayed.

As for delay moving items and problems like that, that is an issue with latency/lag rather than desync.

Yeah, sorry, I did idd misunderstand you.

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ahcos wrote:

It's called Dota-games or ARTS, jfyi. Calling ARTS games "MOBA" is like calling a car a HADS (Half-Automatic Driving System), because in the 1950s some car producer chose that term over "car" for their cars, and every idiot adapted it. Call whatever game you like "MOBA" (because it fits every game basicly - one of the reason why the term's so bad), but leave Dota alone, ty.

I agree the term Moba is rediculous. However you are mistaken. The DotA/LoL/HoN genre was originally called the AoS genre. AoS (Aeon of Strife) were the original maps from Starcraft 1, and this was later copied into Warcraft 3 as Defense of the Ancients by many different mappers. Eul later merged it into one map and added many heroes from different maps. From there it went to Guinsoo then IceFrog, and you all know the rest.

AoS history lesson 101

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sluz wrote:

btw by your logic, should we call dota (and all other similar mobas, for that matter) AOS-games?

In a word, yes. It is the AoS genre. Nothing else would make sense.

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Zedda wrote:

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ahcos wrote:

It's called Dota-games or ARTS, jfyi. Calling ARTS games "MOBA" is like calling a car a HADS (Half-Automatic Driving System), because in the 1950s some car producer chose that term over "car" for their cars, and every idiot adapted it. Call whatever game you like "MOBA" (because it fits every game basicly - one of the reason why the term's so bad), but leave Dota alone, ty.

I agree the term Moba is rediculous. However you are mistaken. The DotA/LoL/HoN genre was originally called the AoS genre. AoS (Aeon of Strife) were the original maps from Starcraft 1, and this was later copied into Warcraft 3 as Defense of the Ancients by many different mappers. Eul later merged it into one map and added many heroes from different maps. From there it went to Guinsoo then IceFrog, and you all know the rest.

AoS history lesson 101

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sluz wrote:

btw by your logic, should we call dota (and all other similar mobas, for that matter) AOS-games?

In a word, yes. It is the AoS genre. Nothing else would make sense.

Do you guys know how language works? If everyone is calling it MOBA, it's called MOBA. I only see Dota fanboys bringing this up because they hate LoL. It's MOBA for most people, deal with it.